[xrad]

slightly on the high side but not unreasonable

and it was done fairly quickly.

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[ds968]

<!--quoteo(post=74137:date=Jun 17 2009, 02:54 PM:name=xrad)-->QUOTE (xrad @ Jun 17 2009, 02:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->and it was done fairly quickly.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

yup, would have been even quicker if it wasn't for an entire week of simply waiting for the valve guides to arrive from Germany


well, on the bright side I have new valves, new lifters, new guides, new head gasket and seals, new water pump ( not a rebuilt one, although nothing wrong with rebuilt, I just chose to go new ) new variocam chain and pads, new timing belt tensioner, all new rollers, new Gates belts, new caster blocks, new ignition coil, new spark plugs, ( yeah, yeah - wtf do those have to do with this.. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif[/img] you ak ; nothing at all, other than adding to the total bill.. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dry.gif[/img] .) ... and a partridge in apear tree..

not much to tell on the short city street drive home, feels pretty much the same as before but I'll have a chance to test it comprehensively this weekend on a few runs, and especially on the highway where I'll really be able to detect any differences..

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[ds968]

Oh, I forgot.. I had an alignment done ( because of the new caster blocks ) and I asked Bob to give me the specs since he knows my driving preferences, where I typically push it and where I don't, yada yada. I gave the set up specs he emailed me to the shop and ...oh baby, does that
car respond niiiiiiicely ! Just perfect !

Public thanks to the Flash-man !! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif[/img]

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[sp4149]

Another thought crossed my mine about the subject. Are the failure rates the same for the cars with Tiptronics? Or does the slower acceleration and other factors with an automatic protect (or stress) the belt more? Obviously as a Tip owner I have a vested interest in there being even a slight advantage to having an automatic transmission. Of course with a blown head gasket and a damper plate replacement our Cab has had it's share of maintenance.

-sp4149

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[flash]

i suppose it's possible that the lower rpms generally used, coupled with the lesser likelihood of abrubt ups and downs due to quick shift, would lessen the effects, but age is age - i'm not so sure i would want to run the risk - we have about 3.5k miles on the belts in the tip car after a year and a half - at this rate it will have about 7k miles on the belts when we change them in another year and a half

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[RPM]

Just read this post from start to finish...

I'm not going to sleep for a week.

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[Anchorman]

Sleeping shouldn't be a problem at all...as long as you don't drive your 968!

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[ds968]

Since development of a chain and all that would be needed to make it work would be prohibitively expensive, those 944 Kevlar belts ( assuming they're working on making them for 968s ) could be the final solution to elimination of this nightmare risk.. I wish those guys would hurry up and produce the timing and balance kevlars, I for one will gladly pay double, triple, or quadruple the regular belts/ price for something like that.

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[ds968]

Took the car out for a spirited 30 minutes run this morning. All appears to be in order. Running very well, strong pull, no discernable difference than before at any rpm range, in any gear, in any condition. I did not go over 6k rpm though, but there was really no need to do that.

Also had it smog checked because my renewal is due in about two weeks and it passed just fine.

So all is right with the world again [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img]

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[Cloud9...68]

I'm glad you've gotten your 968 back on the road again. I am a little surprised, though, that you're not noticing any increase in power, considering the condition of your head gasket. I would have thought you must have been losing some compression. Also, since it's common knowledge that a head freshening at about 100K is supposed to return a sizeable chunk of power lost due to wear and tear, I'm surprised you haven't felt any seat-of-the-pants improvement. Maybe I, and others north of the 100K milestone, can put this bit of expensive maintenance off a bit. Comments?

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[ds968]

Quite honestly, my seat-of-the-pants has never been that sensitive of an instrument . I noticed a slight difference when I installed the chip, and I noticed a bigger difference ( perhaps surprisingly..) when I did the air box mod, so with this latest job while the car may indeed be pulling better than before, it wasn't by a significant enough margin that would lead me to clearly notice a material change
But again, in some cases where others claim a night and day change - for example, the strut tower brace and the lower suspension brace - I could not feel any change whatsoever on hard turns, etc.. so MY butt-o-meter is not a very reliable guage for these type of things [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dry.gif[/img]

One factor which may also come into play is that for inexplicable reasons the previous compression in this engine was almost as if it had 20k miles on it ( did a compression check at about 60k mi, IIRC, and there was less than half of 1 percent loss from factory numbers, and that - 0.5% was an even reading on every cylinder ). Also the timing was set so perfectly in the past that this car's torque ( and quite a few other members here who have driven the car, or tried to stay along its side [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif[/img] ) will attest to the fact that this engine was incredibly strong. So in my thinking that may contribute to the the lack of a noticeable change after the head job. It could be running stronger but perhaps if I had a more "tired" engine before, it would be easier to detect the difference.

Whatever the case even if you delay the valve, lifters, guides job, please don't delay replacing the head gasket for too long after 100k miles.. that thing was the only part in this engine which did NOT look too healthy at 100k miles !

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[Cloud9...68]

Thanks for the informative response. I have to confess, other than the Sumitomo HTRZIII tires, I can't say I've ever noticed a substantial difference from any of the mods, or maintenance, I've done to my car, either. And that includes at the track.

I agree that the head gasket is likely to be the item most in need of replacement on any car with over 100K miles. But replacing the head gasket is such a big job, it would be a crime to go to all that trouble, and not do a complete valve job. But on the other hand, there are plenty of examples of cars with 160K+ miles on the original head gasket, so I'm not sure this is terribly urgent.

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[flash]

the head gasket apparently has nothing to do with mileage, but rather it is an age thing - they are disintegrating - it is only a matter of time before they go - the harder you drive, the more heat cycles you subject it to, etc, the sooner it will go

there will be a thread with a lot more information about this coming up very soon

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[ds968]

<!--quoteo(post=74358:date=Jun 20 2009, 06:47 PM:name=Cloud9...68)-->QUOTE (Cloud9...68 @ Jun 20 2009, 06:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->But replacing the head gasket is such a big job, it would be a crime to go to all that trouble, and not do a complete valve job.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Perhaps, but in case your valves, lifters etc. are in great shape it's still a tough call, IMO. A head gasket replacement job at an independent mechanic should cost roughly $ 1,500- $ 1,800. But if you add OE valves, lifters, guides by themselves will easily double your cost just in
parts alone ( $ 1,800 - $ 2,000 for that ) and then another $ 400 - $ 600 on top of it for the machine shop and the mech's labor, it can quickly amount to serious money..

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[Cloud9...68]

<!--quoteo(post=74359:date=Jun 21 2009, 12:08 AM:name=flash)-->QUOTE (flash @ Jun 21 2009, 12:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->the head gasket apparently has nothing to do with mileage, but rather it is an age thing - they are disintegrating - it is only a matter of time before they go - the harder you drive, the more heat cycles you subject it to, etc, the sooner it will go

there will be a thread with a lot more information about this coming up very soon<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanks, I'll be looking forward to the update. One advance question - when the head gasket goes, I assume it's either a slow, gradual, leaky, seeping death, or a sudden loss of compression, or coolant in the cylinders. In any case, it's not likely to result in any real collateral damage, is it?

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[flash]

what damage is done depends on how bad the leak is, where the leak is, and how long you drive on it like that

how much warning you get, or how long it takes to fail is unpredictable - there are too many variables

note: you will not always see coolant in the oil - you can have a leak between the water jacket and the cylinder without ever mixing with the oil

however, you will smell it if you have coolant in there and not just water - you will also see the level drop

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[Cloud9...68]

OK, thanks. I have a lot more questions, but I'll wait till you post the info you referred to in your post just before mine.

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[durtkillon]

ds968,
A nice looking cab just came up for sale on Craigslist for $4K with a broken timing belt. Do you have the parts list from your car by chance with rough prices? There is a bit of a risk if the pistons are damaged, but I'm tempted. I doubt there is any chance the valves are good. I saw that you spent about $4K in parts. I presume you needed a reconditioned head, valves, gasket, belts and belt hardware, seals... Is that for OEM specs or did you go for modified stuff?

Can anybody speak to whether the valves typically bust when the belt goes or whether there piston damage is typical?

http://albuquerque.craigslist.org/cto/1474093474.html

Thanks,
Kurt

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[ds968]

Kurt,

All valves, guides, lifters, head gasket set, cams chain and pads, were OE -

The valves were $ 800 , guides were $ 250, lifters were $ 750 , head gasket set was $ 265 , cam chain was $ 50 , pads were $ 80, timing belts kit and pulleys were $ 250, ( actually that was the only item not bought from the dealer - I got the Gates set and pulley kit from Rennbay ..the dealer wanted $ 575 for the same kit ) , tensioner was $ 165, water pump was $ 450 , and the labor for R&R including the machine shop sublet was $ 2,750 .

I had a few other things replaced while the car was in the shop ( caster blocks, ignition coil, spark plugs, and misc. which brought the entire bill to $ 6,700.. but the big ticket items are all listed above.

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