Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5

timing belt failure

<!--quoteo(post=73184:date=Jun 4 2009, 07:38 AM:name=benspeeder)-->QUOTE (benspeeder @ Jun 4 2009, 07:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I wonder what an LS1 would be like in a 968 - that would be a wonderful combo...<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


There are a few 968s out there with this "mod" .. ( two or three that we know of [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/huh.gif[/img] )
I'm not sure but a search here may reveal some threads with impressions from those who own those cars, as well as varying opinions on the topic.

I'm still personally not fond of the idea, but as I said.. starting to lean toward warming up to it.. ahhh, could be just a temporary lapse because of the hassle with the repair. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dry.gif[/img]
Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.
Reply

i have a love/hate relationship with the idea

love the idea of the torque - hate the idea of all the bracing and stronger clutch that would be need to properly handle that torque

love the idea of the availability of the engine components - hate the thought of a chevy engine in a porsche (though i've done things like that before)

love the idea of the big beefy power plant - hate the idea of yet another round of suspension changes and brake balancing to handle the extra 100lbs on the front end, and all the torque squatting

love the idea of power on tap at the tickle of the throttle - hate the idea of having to watch what i'm doing for fear of snapping a gear, or over-revving the engine

not a simple answer for sure

if i were 20 years younger, and still had my shop, this would probably be a no brainer, i'd dive in and work it out with an amalgamation of parts from other cars (not that our car isn't already exactly that)
Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

94 Midnight Metallic Blue Cab Porsche 968 w/deviating cashmere/black interior and WAY too many mods to list - thanks to eric for creating www.968forums.com



"It isn't nearly as expensive to do it right as it is to do it wrong."
Reply

I guess one very hard, uber-expensive lesson we can all take away from Dan's experience is that if your engine suddenly starts losing power, or running rough, IMMEDIATELY assume the worst (though of course hope for the best) and shut the engine off. Then safely coast to a stop, and call a tow truck.

A couple of years ago, mine started running very rough, and in a display of extreme foolishness, I opted to drive it the 8 or so miles home. I kept the revs low, but now understand that I was extremely luck to avoid disaster. When I got it home, I found that about 20 teeth had sheared off the balance shaft belt, but luckily, it was still intact. I think I used up my one 968 Mulligan...
Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.
Reply

<!--quoteo(post=73230:date=Jun 4 2009, 05:20 PM:name=Cloud9...68)-->QUOTE (Cloud9...68 @ Jun 4 2009, 05:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I guess one very hard, uber-expensive lesson we can all take away from Dan's experience is that if your engine suddenly starts losing power, or running rough, IMMEDIATELY assume the worst (though of course hope for the best) and shut the engine off. Then safely coast to a stop, and call a tow truck.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Yup. Good advice. Scratch that; it's essential and critical advice ! Mine did not run rough at all, no vibrations of any kind, nor did it make any scary noises, but simply started to lose power.. if you feel that, shut it off immediately and coast to the shoulder of the road, if possible and safe to do so. If nothing else it could prevent the worst case scenario which would be a valve head or two breaking off their stem and then bye bye pistons.. at that point you might as well have the tow truck take you to a bank first so you can rob it, on the way to the repair shop..


Hope I am the last one to whom this has happened. Ever !

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.
Reply

Good advice, I heard a ticking sound, very faint, no loss of power while driving to lunch. Came out after lunch to start the car and all it did was spin freely, no engagement. Turned out a 6 inch strip was gone from the timing belt. Porsche shop could not explain why, but the good news was no engine damage, good compression. I have also used my mulligan!
Phil
Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.
Reply

lucky!!
Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.
Reply

Paranoid from what happened to my 968, I immediately set up an appointment to replace the timing belt on my wife's daily driver, the 1998 Nissan Pathfinder which we bought brand new, 11 years ago. The mfg suggested replacement interval for the timing belt is 105k miles, but no mention of years. However, I never got around to it, so it reached 126k miles and 11 years of daily spinning, in hot, in cold, in rain, in stop and go traffic, on highways, on streets, slow, fast (although hardly on any occasions at more than 90 mph.. ok, so one factor in its favor..) etc.

After being horrified at witnessing what my 968's timing belt looked like on 45k miles and less than six years ( dry, brittle, cracks everywhere, all teeth were a bit worn but otherwise ok, yet the integrity of the entire belt was just scary, in both appearance and feel ) I expected this 11 year old belt with triple the mileage on it to be nearly decomposed and a hair away from crumbling in my hand as I picked it up.

I keep hearing from everyone that rubber is rubber is rubber so ALL rubber parts have about a five years max life.. uhh, guess what ..not really !

The old Nissan belt was essentially indistinguishable from the new one they put in. I bent it in every way imaginable, inspected every bit of the top and the underside, twisting it over and over looking for the smallest sign of cracking in between the teeth, on the teeth themselves ( which had no visible wear ) thinking that this simply can't be..the rubber was as soft, as shiny and as felxible as any new belt they had in the shop with which I compared it. So I held it down with one foot, and started pulling as hard as I could thinking : I'll hear it start to tear any moment now - at this age even a 200 pound weakling like me can break it, right ? [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dry.gif[/img] Not a chance. This thing was unbelievably resilient.

So now, pissed as can be for spending $ 900 for a job I clearly did not need, the insult added to injury was that the mechanic at this shop who works exclusively on Japanese cars indicated he has never even heard of a belt breaking on a car, much less fixing one in all the years he has been there.
That would explain my search on the Nissan forums turning up only one case of a timing belt failure... ever. And even that was hearsay.

So I asked the mechanic to check the old belt himself, and to give me an educated guess how many more miles I would have had on it. The reply: on the safe side, probably about a quarter million miles.. or likley another decade, whichever comes first.. great, he tells me this after I spent the money to do the replacement, like he could not advise me of the facts before ?!

Anyway, to the pint now : yeah, I get it - our belts are subjected to running at 4000-6000 rpm more often than not, and we have aluminum engines which expand a bit, and there's much more heat produced by the 968 engine than by a boring old Nissan, and all that contributes to the belt wearing out faster, yada, yada, yada.. but come on, we're not talking double the life of one belt over another, not even triple the life.. we're getting close to ridiculuos differences which can only be explained ( IMO ) by this : Porsche uses, and maybe deliberately, cheap materials and substandard fabrication in their parts.. considering the name on that badge, and the cost of these cars, that's just shameful, to say the least.

So talk about adding insult to injury...I have to spend a ton of money because of a piece of crap Porsche belt breaking at 45k miles only to discover that a Nissan OE belt ( which also costs about half of what Porsche charges for its belt ) is of far superior quality [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mad.gif[/img] , and would have had a lifespan borderlining on infinity ( ok, we'll leave other japanese cars out of the discussion here [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif[/img] ).

BTW, the Nissan belt looks significantly wider than ours. That might also make a difference in resistance to snapping, but certainly not in the resilience / flexibility where there was no comparison between the two belts' rubber compound feel and strength. Fine, I'll blame it on heat, and move on from my ranting to bigger and better things, but I just had to get this off my chest.

IMHO, "Porsche quality" is a joke. A joke at the consumer's expense, that is..
Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.
Reply

Ferrari's with t-belts have the same problems. The belts are
more expensive, and the cost of repair is more expensive.

I hope that helps.
Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.
Reply

the reality is somewhere in the middle

rubber is rubber - belt manufacturers spec belts for a life expectancy of 5 years - this is because there is no way they want to try to figure out how long a belt will last on each car - that is the job of the car manufacturer

HOWEVER, this takes into account the worst case scenario of the worst design on the most abused car - as dan has found, on a car with a wider belt, subjected to less abuse, and likely better protected from the heat, a belt can last a lot longer

a good analogy would be like saying a pair of tennis shoes will last 10 years - try getting that life out of them on a kid - however, an adult might get that - i actually have a pair that are that old

so, you must consider the application - heat is the big enemy - friction causes heat - spin it slower, and you get a LOT less heat - it does not surprise me that you got that kind of life out of that belt on that car - as to what shape it was in after that long, i'd have to compare it to a new one to really know, measure elasticity and such, but i'm suspecting the new one feels a lot different

won't happen as often on our car though - apples and oranges
Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

94 Midnight Metallic Blue Cab Porsche 968 w/deviating cashmere/black interior and WAY too many mods to list - thanks to eric for creating www.968forums.com



"It isn't nearly as expensive to do it right as it is to do it wrong."
Reply

Dan-

Just did the timing belt on my wife's 2004 Honda Pilot this past December. Car had about 110-112K miles on it then. Honda recommends 105K miles for the belty change. Had a few other things done as well and bill came to a tidy $1200. Did I need to change the belt? Nope. I am sure the belt was in the same condition as your wife's Pathfinder belt. But, I'm pretty religious with the upkeep of her Pilot. She carts my youngest daughter to and from daycare so I make sure the car will get there and back without issue. I've actually dropped the ball and need to do the rear brakes- got the parts, just being lazy since I know the rear brakes on that monster do absolutely nothing to stop it!

The other thing that really screws us is the interference engine. Belt goes and more than likely valves bend.

Anyway, the light is at the end of the tunnel for you! What doesn't kill us makes us stronger (or of lighter wallet depending on how you look at it!!!).

I hope the Kevlar belt materializes in the near future. I believe I will be replacing my belt within the next 2 years....
Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.
Reply

<!--quoteo(post=73648:date=Jun 10 2009, 08:04 AM:name=biotechee)-->QUOTE (biotechee @ Jun 10 2009, 08:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The other thing that really screws us is the interference engine. Belt goes and more than likely valves bend.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Yeah, the Pathfinder also has an interference engine, that's why I did not want to take a chance..
Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.
Reply

Granted this is as far on the opposite end of the automotive spectrum as you can get, but the change interval on the belt of our lowly 2003 Chrysler Town & Country minivan is....... infinity. No replacement recommended, ever. I'm sure it's not an inteference engine, so I feel safe in following this recommendation, even if Chrysler is the most pathetic car company on the planet (now that Trabant is kaput).
Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.
Reply

update - car should be ready to fire up today .

man, even the spark plugs ( which were less than a week old at the time this happened ) have been damaged ! not much escaped injury [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dry.gif[/img]
Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.
Reply

Spark Plugs were damaged, how is that possible ??
Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.
Reply

<!--quoteo(post=74043:date=Jun 16 2009, 12:19 PM:name=Chris Vais)-->QUOTE (Chris Vais @ Jun 16 2009, 12:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Spark Plugs were damaged, how is that possible ??<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


on three of them the electrodes looked a bit bent compared to the other one which looked "normal".... I suppose the valves hit them ? [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/huh.gif[/img]
Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.
Reply

probably not the valve, maybe bent before installation or during head removal. If a valve was bent enough to hit the plug, I think that you would have serious piston damage.....
Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.
Reply

The work is done, the car is ready to go ! My mech road tested it already, so my turn to try it out and give it the final stamp of approval will be tomorrow afternmoon ( I have no time today, nor in the morning and dammit, I'm dying to get back into that driver seat and take it for a spin )

He's working on compiling the invoice now, so I'll post later tonight from the hospital bed ( they must have wireless, in the intesive care ward, don't they ? [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif[/img] ) as soon as the collapse, hyperventilation, and cardiac arrest symptoms subside a bit..
Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.
Reply

good luck...
Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.
Reply

Fingers crossed for your test drive...I'm sure it will be fine.

I recommend Single Malt Therapy for the bill (as a survivor, I know...)

Jay
Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.
Reply

Thanks guys. I'll drive it tomorrow morning and report back.

In the meantime, definitely stopping by to pick up the therapy-in-a-bottle remedy, as the final damage is...

$ 6,800.

Granted, there were a few things I had done "while in there" which added another $ 1,500 + or so to this invoice,
so let's say it would have been slightly over $ 5k to get everything that was damaged by the timing belt failure itself fixed but still... close to about half the market value of our entire car(s) nowadays.. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dry.gif[/img]

I now envy all of you DIY-ers, though I think the parts alone were almost $ 4,000.. I'll get the specific breakdown when I go there, I just asked him to let me know what the total was so I can stop by the bank first and make sure my overdraft protection is still active [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif[/img]
Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.
Reply


Possibly Related Threads…
Thread / Author Replies Views Last Post
Last Post by tejon007
03-27-2024, 02:25 PM
Last Post by Ryan
06-26-2019, 03:00 PM

Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)