[ds968]

Just because the engine gods must have felt I did not have a better use for my money they apparently decided this was the day I needed to contribute to the mechanics' vacation fund, so I have just joined the ranks of those who had the misfortune of their timing belt braking.

I had only 45k miles on these belts but they were installed in July 2003, so pretty close to six years longevity. That age, combined with this weekend's driving in 103 degree weather, followed by 40 degree nightime temps ( on the ocean's edge where we spend the night ), only to return to 100 + degrees driving the following day, no doubt played some role creating enough expansion and contraction and re-expansion of what was already stressed rubber to make it ..snap

And now, I will jhereby repeat the same sentiment I experienced when I realized what happened [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mad.gif[/img] FUUUUUUUU * K ! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mad.gif[/img]

As if things wereen't bad enough, I was 150 miles away from home in 100+ degree heat, with a broken down car on the side of a freeway, 25 miles away in each direction from the nearest civilization. However, there was a silver lining: two of my 968 buddies were with me ( we were caravaning back from the Paso Robles meeting ), so I had the much needed moral support group keeping me sane until the tow truck got there about 45 min later. Also helpful was that less than a couple of hundred yards away there was an overpass which provided sufficient shade to prevent serious heatstroke. So all in all things could have been worse, and the only pain was the tought of the expense to come next week..

The tow truck got there, the 968 went on the flatbed and 150 miles and 3 hours later we left it in my mechanic's shop driveway. AAA picked up the first 100 miles on my membership card, the additional 50 miles cost me $ 6/me so a hefty $ 300 bill, but compared to what I'm facing, it's just another negligible add-on. I actually felt sorry for the tow truck driver, a very polite, helpful young guy who had little clue when dispatch sent him to this car that he'll have 150 miles ahead of him one way, only to return back another 150, so after we finshed dropping the car I gave him a $ 50 bill and suggested he get himself a nice bottle of reserve Tobin James zinfandel [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif[/img] ( of which I had bought a few the previous day).. This dude was sooo happy and greatful that you'd think I handed him a bar of gold... so what was a practically insignificant gesture for me made someone's day - at least if my day sucked, I contributed to a bit of a bight spot in somneone else's.. maybe karma will come back my way .

Anyway, back to the problem: so Bob ( Flash ) is checking with Pete ( RS Barn ) first thing tomorrow am to see if by any chance he might have a pre-set / rebuilt head so that way I can save tons of time and labor it would take to fix and replace valves so my mechanic can just do the head switch..
( I'm thinking best case scenario only a couple of valves are bent but worst case all of them are f***ed up because I drove for a good minute after I felt
the power first go away, as I was coasting to the shoulder of the road.. btw, the car sounded like it had a muffled backfire / misfire symptom as it was dying.. )

Sigh... just had a few glasses of fine aged tequila to calm my nerves and to help come to terms with spending a few thousand bucks I would have had so
much better plans for ...


Incidentally, what else should I have done while half of the engine is apart ?

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[tom968]

I've had it happen a few times in a VW GTI, and I
feel for you.

During breakfast you mentioned the car should have a
chain. I guess you should'nt mess with the engine or
Porsche gods.

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[bva]

that is a royal bummer. i should have let you take the cazadores bottle with you - would have made waiting for the tow truck a little easier.

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[ds968]

I recall a post not too long ago , though quite honestly I don't know if it was here or on another forum, where the 968 owner had the timing belt break and there was no damage whatsoever to any of the valves or anything else for that matter ( no, it was not the balance belt...the timing belt broke ! ). That must have been a one in a million chance and I don't have that kind of luck. But I also know of cases where only one or two valves were affected so there is some faint hope for me, though I'm not holding my breath.. as said, I don't have that kind of luck.

I'll know exactly what the extent of the damage is as soon as my mechanic opens it up in th next couple of days, so at that point we'll know exactly what
we'll need to do, what may or may not be readily available out there, and what turns out to be the most sensible option.

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[Johannvb]

I feel for you. Maybe this is a good time to go the one of RS Barn's stage2/3 heads?

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[josephsc]

Ouch! Sorry to hear that the Paso run ended with a catastrophic failure! I'm crossing my fingers that you find minimal damage when you open it up.....

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[ds968]

<!--quoteo(post=72076:date=May 17 2009, 11:17 PM:name=josephsc)-->QUOTE (josephsc @ May 17 2009, 11:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Ouch! Sorry to hear that the Paso run ended with a catastrophic failure! I'm crossing my fingers that you find minimal damage when you open it up.....<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

My mindset is already geared for, and prepared for the worst case scenario ( all 16 valves shot, all pistons damaged, etc, etc.. ) so anything better than that outcome will be "good news" to me ... I can only hope you're
right [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img] but it's tough to look at this case without a high degree of pessimism because of how it happened when it happened: IIRC, I was going 80 or 85 mph, well north of 4000 rpm, and after the first few moments when I sensed the loss of power, I was trying to re-accelerate ( because it felt identical to a couple of past occasions when some gas impurities caused the engine to feel temporarily sluggish and skip , but then recovered a minute or two later ) the engine ran in gear, revving, for probably a solid minute or more while I was trying to figure out a way to pull over to the shoulder and turn it off. So.. chances are I'm royally F'd.

I'll post findings as soon as my mech determines what's in there, including what looks like may have specifically led to this disaster ( he's got a great forensics eye and mind ) but now I'm starting to speculate on another possible cause: of course, the most likely one is still the 6years age of the belts, "helped" by the extreme temps, so the balance belt might have snapped and then took out the timing belt, but I've also had a very mild but persistant chirping sound for several months now and everyone who listened to it felt it may be coming from the housing of the belts so may be a roller bearing starting to act up.. that's one more reason I was planning to replace the belts and the rollers and everything else in there this week or next at the latest.. Oh, the irony !! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dry.gif[/img] If that basta*d bearing gave up and froze in place I'm just going to be even more pissed at myself for procrastinating on fixing that chirp..

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[Chris Vais]

Dan, I'm terribly sorry this happened. I was about an hour and half behind you guys so I must have missed seeing you. Where did it happen?

For those of you who weren't there, Flash lost his balance shaft belt on this same trip. Dan's timing belt failure was the second belt failure of the weekend. In fact at dinner on Saturday night there was some discussion about these belts timing out on cars that don't get driven a lot of miles each year. Perhaps we should entertain a discussion on the subject under a different posting.

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[xrad]

Sucks, man. I feel for you.

Were you at high rpms when it failed?

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[ds968]

Happened at slightly beyond the midpoint between Paso Robles and King City. Approx 1:30 pm

Not sure of the rpm at the time, but pretty sure it was over 4k.

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[Cloud9...68]

So sorry to hear about your problem. I have to admire your generosity toward the tow truck driver in you moment of financial distress - speaks very well of your character. I'd like to think this is a common trait among 968 owners.

An obvious question or two. First, other than a loss of power, what symptoms did you have? I would have expected the engine to come to a crashing, immediate halt in the event of a timing belt failure. I had the alternator belt snap once, and the experience can best be described as "violent" - a BANG loud enough for me to turn the engine off IMMEDIATELY. I would have expected this to be magnified about ten-fold with a timing belt snapping. Are you absolutely sure this is what happened?

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[Anchorman]

I gave Flash an OUCH!!! for his balance shaft belt failure (which I also suffered - or, more accurately was discovered - a couple of weeks ago. You deserve an OH S__T!!!

It's becoming clear that these belts are prone to failure (my balance shaft belt was about two years, and 20k miles, old). I feel paranoia setting in.

Best of luck - if Pete has a head, and you haven't suffered piston damage, you're certainly on the right path for the least cost repair. Fingers crossed for you.

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[ds968]

That's what I would have expected also - a rather violent , or at least a more pronounced, sudden engine halt and some accompanying loud scary noise. Not at all the case.. felt as if it did not want to accelerate but still pulling a little bit when on the gas though hesitating and losing more and more powwer, gradually slowing down, with the only abnormal "noise" being an occasional muffled ( quiet ) backfire-like or "missing" type sound until it finally died just as I pulled to the side of the freeway. Tried to start it again but absolutely nothing ! Lifted the hood and to my horror I noticed the little rubber cap missing on the belt housing so I got that sinking feeling only to have my worst fears confirmed when I got close and saw the belt was split in several strips and shredded.

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[Anchorman]

After my balance shaft belt failure (which I almost didn't catch and replace before going on a DE event at Watkins Glen), I was thinking about what I would to if I was faced with an engine disaster. Subject to all of the normal (and abnormal) "subject to's", I'd give very serious thought to an LS1 or similar V8, rather than putting in a replacement 968 engine.

Just thinking...

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[ds968]

If I do have piston damage, the cost is going to be so painful I'm probably going to spend another couple of thou and have this engine bored out to 3.2 liters.

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[Anchorman]

The possible added couple of thou is all the more reason to consider the LS route - and 3.2 liters will look meager.

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[RS Barn]

Dan,
We are seeing more weird failures (belts included) due to age vs miles. I suggest annual inspections of belts, cam teeth, oil leaks ect. As any car ages the periodic maintaince schedule should be accelerated.
Pete

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[ds968]

<!--quoteo(post=72124:date=May 18 2009, 05:02 PM:name=Anchorman)-->QUOTE (Anchorman @ May 18 2009, 05:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The possible added couple of thou is all the more reason to consider the LS route - and 3.2 liters will look meager.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


What's an "LS route" ? Do you mean the LS1 vette engine ? I'd never do that, but that's just me.

<!--quoteo(post=72126:date=May 18 2009, 05:51 PM:name=RS Barn)-->QUOTE (RS Barn @ May 18 2009, 05:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Dan,
We are seeing more weird failures (belts included) due to age vs miles. I suggest annual inspections of belts, cam teeth, oil leaks ect. As any car ages the periodic maintaince schedule should be accelerated.
Pete<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Right you are Pete, and it may be PITA to do that so frequently but it's starting to make a lot of sense to go trough the hassle rather than risk the alternative ..

BTW, I'll be in touch once I know exactly what the details are on my engine ..

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[Anchorman]

Yes, I did mean the LS1 Corvette engine. I understand the sentiment - "never do that" - but with all of the anguish that seems to be inherent in the design of the 968 engine (and accessories), I'd consider it in a heartbeat - but that's just me. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img]

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[ds968]

<!--quoteo(post=72116:date=May 18 2009, 04:36 PM:name=Cloud9...68)-->QUOTE (Cloud9...68 @ May 18 2009, 04:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->So sorry to hear about your problem. I have to admire your generosity toward the tow truck driver in you moment of financial distress - speaks very well of your character. I'd like to think this is a common trait among 968 owners.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

You know, it IS a common trait among 968 owners and this past weekend just served to underscore how true that really is; one would expect that in a group of twenty+ people you'll find maybe one horse's ass, or someone with a sour disposition, or someone with a chip on their shoulder, or some stingy / selfish nimrod.. at least one, maybe even two, right ? Not here ! And we had owners of all ages ( one of us was even carded at the wine tasting [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif[/img] ) of all social and economic standing, various education levels and cultural backgrounds , diverse professions, etc but in addition to being the nicest folks you'd want to spend time with, everyone's generosity and selflessness was so evident all around and manifested itself in so many ways that you have to believe there is a common bond beoynd just this particuilar car's ownership that mkaes this group so special. Maybe the joy of driving this car changes your entire perspective on life. you enjoy and appreciate everything more and can't help but find ways to spread that goodwill, or who knows what it is.. but it definitely speaks to the character of everyone I have met so far in this rare community.

Ok, enough of this, I live in California and here this would surely call for a group hug, so I'll sign off for now - TMZ is starting in a minute [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif[/img]

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