[Leonard]

Thats true, it would be nice to lose that extra weight, or I guess I could could just lose some weight. Can't expect the car to diet if I don't.



You make a good point though. There is so much extra "stuff" on modern cars. The older lighter cars had small displacement engines and good performance, old 911s, the early 924, 944, even early British cars, MG A, early MG B, etc. They were simple and relatively nimble. Although I don't know how nimble you can be in a 74 MGB GT!!



As weight went up, so did displacement to counter the added "stuff". I have wondered how the 968 engine would perform in a 924. I know people do this but I haven't experienced one.

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[Anchorman]

I dislike the popup look - and I personally have no interest in thinking, or looking like, I'm in a 911 (being discussed in another thread).



There's almost no decent fixed headlight conversion that I would find less attractive than the popups. So, maybe some day...

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[Leonard]

Maybe you should have bought an MG B! <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/biggrin.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/biggrin.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[Jason Judd]

That's kinda' what I was going for, too.



Jason

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[flash]

i-want-my---i-want-my---i-want-my-mgb

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[Anchorman]

About a decade ago, I had my first 968. At that time, I debated whether that was the car to buy or whether I wanted to go back to the simpler days of my 1962 Corvette. For my purposes - a daily driver - there is great attractiveness to many of the features of more modern cars. That's why I went 968 then, and again three years ago. No regrets (other than I still dislike the popup headlights - there, got this back on topic).

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[ds968]

[quote name='flash' date='Jan 12 2006, 02:43 PM']i-want-my---i-want-my---i-want-my-mgb

[right][post="14519"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]



no you don't.. you'll be spending money for nothing... <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/tongue.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />





Fixed headlights are on 99% of the cars on the road. Why be like everyone else ? IMO, a part of the charm which makes the 968 so compelling, though admittedly it's a far distant to the classic beauty of its lines IS the uniqueness factor -the pop ups are an integral part of that unique quality..

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[Norskiepete]

I like 'em too! My kids think they are great, the way they riiiiiiise, and then the lights come..... ON! <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/biggrin.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[Anchorman]

ds968 - good try, but no sale. There are lots of unique things about the 968. I could easily give up the popups and still be a happy - make that happier - owner.

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[flash]

i imagine that everybody has a particular thing about the car that they love and a thing that they hate



sure, i'd rather the things stayed down, but they don't really "bug" me - reminiscent of the opel gt (which i always liked) and other cars of the 70s that did the same thing



many things that bothered me i have already corrected (like the stupid switch locations)



myself, i'd like to smack the clown that thought the rear hips should be concave instead of convex - imagine this car with the front fender corner ridges smoothed out, the creases on the sides gone, and the rear hips convex - COOL!!!



but, i digress - if somebody comes up with a conversion that works, i'll do it

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[saxman]

my apologizes for revamping an old thread, but I must say, you're all making this seem more difficult than it needs to be.



The 993 headlights seem to fit, or be made to fit easily into the fenders, correct? Yes, I realize they're pointing the wrong way, but this is completely irrelevant. All you really need them for is a sealed headlight assembly that fits somewhat nicely into the opening. From there, all you need to do is open up the headlight assembly, and replace the projector inside(or even remount the stock one). All of the light output from a projector based headlight comes from the projector itself. You can remount it inside the headlight so it's pointing whichever why you'd like, be it up, down, right, left, or in this case, angled appropriately, so that while the 993 headlight is aimed towards the sky, the important aspects inside the light are pointed down the road.



Now that leaves the high beam assembly, which in the 993 lights appears to be part of a reflector bowl below the projector. Lose this. Use it as a DRL if you so desire. Replace the projector with a bixenon projector from something like a bmw, or if there is room, ideally an acura TL. You end up getting HID's using OEM quality parts. The kits and stuff out there that some people buy are complete crap. This way you get quality parts, oem performance, and a much much more updated appearance of the car.

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[flash]

no - they don't fit - they stick up nearly a half inch when at the right angle - to my knowledge the 993 is not a projector light - if it were, it would have a clear glass lens, and not a fluted one



the angle is everything - the lens refracts the light based on its angle of incidence - changing the bulb angle will not change the way the light is bent by the lens - if the glass were just glass, it would be one thing (as in the case of a projector light), but it isn't



i haven't seen a plain glass 993 lens yet - if you find one, that might work - it would look a bit goofy, but it might work

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[saxman]

I'm not sure you're quite following me. That, or my knowledge of the 993 headlight is completely wrong.



This is a 993 headlight, no?





There are two light sources in this headlight. A low beam projector at the top of the light(note the round glass ball that is the projector lense) and a high beam reflector bowl at the bottom. The lens does have a diffused section of it, however, not where the light emits. The fluting here does not cover the entire light and is more of an aesthetic element. The angle of the lens may result in slight distortion of the projector cut off if sharp enough, true, however, the light direction/spread/output/angle of the low beam is majorly dependent on the orientation of the projector inside the headlight.



So disregarding the proper angle of the headlight to be at... Will the headlight at any angle fill the hole in the fenders. There's no reason the projector can not be placed at an angle inside the headlight.

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[flash]

i truly wish it were that simple - i would be the first to jump on this - i even have an extra fender, and have tried to come up with an idea that works, and doesn't look like a homemade project - no luck



the flutes provide the lateral and peripheral patterns - they are not just cosmetic



the angle is still the critical component



as an example of how, take a paper or styrofoam cup, and a straw - poke a hole in the bottom of the cup, in the center - stick the straw through it - now you have the "front aperture of the lens", the "beam", and the "projector" - move the straw (beam) around, "tilting" it as you suggest - see what happen to the "beam" as it is moved - it will be forced down into the bottom of the "lens" and into the lower flutes



without moving the position of the projector itself, this idea won't work - this would mean reforming the rear shell



as for the lens even fitting in the hole, the one application i have seen, required rework of the fender to make it fit, and it still stuck up above the top line of the fender



please feel free to try this though - if you come up with a solution, let us all know - i am VERY ready to do something like this

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[saxman]

I really doubt the flutes on the lens has much to do with the spread of the pattern. The entire purpose of using a projector based headlight is that the capabilities of the projector to focus light and output a wide beam is far superior to that of a light that depends on a diffused lens for output.



With a projector, you get the width of beam based on the bowl of the projector, and the small lens, and the cut off is formed by a shield contained inside the projector.



Are you going to have to modify the inside of the headlight a good amount? Most certainly. Chances are you're going to want to completely replace the projector inside the headlight for something superior(why pay the price for the 993 lutronic headlights, when you can get the halogen ones and replace the projector with a much more efficient projector for less money?), and it's going to take some chopping up of the back of the headlight... but that's really not the end of the world. There are plenty of people(like myself) that do projector retrofits into lights that don't have projectors at all. Take for example the lights I made for a guy in Europe.







No projector to hid projectors using some oem bmw 3 series parts.



Now you discuss needing the flutes to have spread pattern, yet most projector based lights have no flutes at all in the lens. Also, I would be willing to bet that if you looked at a 993 with a light haze over the lens(that would allow you to see where the light is passing through the lens), none of the light would pass through any of the fluted section.



For further reference, here is a test I did comparing the beam pattern and output of a stock headlight for the red car above, and the projectors in them... without being mounted inside a headlight.







Notice that the beam pattern of the projector is very much defined without any sort of fluting.



Basically, even if the fluting on the 993 lenses is for manipulating the beam pattern of the stock projectors, there's no reason with new projectors that this would need to be retained.







It will obviously take some work to make it work well, you just have to keep in mind that the 993 lights are really only being used for their aesthetic appearance and a clear(at least where the light is coming through) lens. If you could find a clear lens that would work on the stock 968 lights, there's no reason a projector couldn't be put in there, and just disable the flipping up action. Granted this wouldn't remove the weight up there, or look quite as oem(although it's plenty possible to make a very oem like appearance with enough work), but would solve the need to modify the fenders at all, and could potentially make for a much more drop in solution.



Are there any headlight with a clear lens that are replacements for the stock headlight bucket? Are they a standard sized round lens, or is it slightly off round, etc.

I should have paid more attention to the headlights of buzz's car when I test drove it last week.

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[flash]

beaming against a garage door is no test - check lumens at distance against a known diffusion pattern - if you get what you want, great - likely you'll get a very diffused pattern, with fewer lumens - optics are EXTREMELY expensive and complicated things to work out and cost in the neighborhood of 150 grand per housing - to say you can duplicate the effect in your garage tells me you really need to go to work for the headlight companies - there is REALLY good money in it



the projectors you are talking about use focal length devices to achieve what fluting did in years past - this is no simple task



i don't knpw who told you the 993 lens is for aesthetics, but they had no clue what they were talking about - you can prove that by grabbing some tape and covering the flutes - the pattern goes to crap in a hurry



i'm sure something can be worked out, but it will involve a lot of work to develop the rear housing, and focal devices to contain, focus and generate the desired pattern - a great project for sure, and have fun - i'm first in line to buy them when they are done - i'm just not in a spot to do that right now



to my knowledge, the 968 lens is specific to this car - sucks for us

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[saxman]

you're right, the garage door test isn't the end all test, etc... point was simply to demonstrate the defined beam of a projector without any sort of fluting. The beam doesn't diffuse at distances... it remains crisp and focused, as most projectors do these days.



You may be right, the 993 projectors may use the diffused section(I presumed not as this is really quite uncommon), but the point is that that doesn't need to be used. You're going to want to change projectors for this sort of conversion anyway to retain high beam purposes, so the way the stock 993 projector works is really irrelevant, and for this use, the flutes on the lenses do become nothing but an aesthetic treatment.



The majority of projectors these days are designed to be used behind a clear lens. All of the needed optics is contained inside the projector. There's absolutely no need to develop any sort of device to "contain, focus, and generate the desired beam pattern"... they're readily available...

take my closet shelf for example...





These are all oem projectors designed to be used behind a clear lens. All of the optics are self contained and very easily transplanted into another housing. The lens is irrelevant.



I'm in the market for a 968 right now, and can certainly say this will be the first thing I do to the car... not because I dislike the pop up headlights, but because I can't stand driving without hids now that I'm used to them.





Is the stock headlight lens on the 968 plastic or glass?

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[sasilverbullet]

glass



And I hope you can figure something out! Because at $181 if I break one, it would be nice to have another option.

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[flash]

that is quite a collection - i hope you can find one that can project the right beam - we'd all like to see it



the stock lens is glass, and bonded to a housing



i too would really like to see this work out, however, i don't want to see the projector back there behind a clear plastic piece - i like the angled look - i also like the accluded look - looking through that clear piece to a vertical projector would make it look like every onther japanese piece of junk out there - ne of the reasons i liked the lines of the car, were the headlights - i just wnt them to stay down and do the same job



projectors are definitely a cheaper way out, and for normal use, provide a good beam - so far, i have not been happy with any of my projectors - it's just not as full and even - it is a lot like halogen lights - bright, but harsh and spotty - so far, i prefer a semi sealed beam, and actually would like to see it in yellow - unfortunately that is not legal here



best of luck though - should be a fun project either way

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[saxman]

it's interesting you say that projectors give a harsh and spotty beam, as one of the aspects of a well designed projector is a very wide, even beam, without any hot spots.



Hot spots are very indicative of halogen projectors, especially when hid kits are applied.







yellow may look different, but it's at a big disadvantage in light output. Don't even get me started about using yellow lights in fogs.

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