[craigawoodman]

Add to all of this the constant pressure to put more and more into a car, along with making each successive iteration "slightly" bigger (compare a 1980's 3 series to a current one - the current one is bigger than a 1980's 5 series), only puts more and more pressure on manufacturers to "optimise" everything.



From the size of the radiator, suspension components, drive shafts, etc - everything is optimised to within an inch of its life now.



I one had a friend who had an old 1970's Chrysler Valiant that he wanted to junk. So they took it bush, trashed it mercilessly and yet it still ran. Ended up taking the air cleaner off the Darby and fed it small rocks - and it still ran. You could not kill this thing - it was over engineered which made it bullet proof. Now everything is optimised, rotating mass, inertia, etc, so that if one variable is wrong, the whole thing self destructs.



Don't get me wrong, the benefits are there in terms of performance and fuel economy, but also in the penalties if something goes wrong. Why is an AK47 so popular - because you can feed it mud and it will still fire. There are better rifles out there, but probably none are as robust as an AK47 (this coming from someone who lives in a nanny state where you cannot own an AK47) but the comparison is valid.



Everything down to the battery is "right/just" sized so as to be absolute minimum you need, nothing more. Is this a recipe for long term reliability?

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[Cloud9...68]

I don't disagree with your points, but I remember when 100,000 miles was considered the useful life of a car. I had a machine shop measure my 968's bores at the top, center, and bottom, and they concluded it had close to zero wear (at 115K miles), and predicted that it could go a million miles. You're correct that many components are optimized down to the nth degree on modern cars, so I can see how many of these components could wear out sooner than in the old days. My guess is that some parts last longer, others less long, on newer cars. But I tend to believe that the things that will put a car in the junk yard (worn rings, spun bearings, broken rods, rusted floorboards, etc.) have benefited so much from advances in metallurgy and manufacturing techniques, that on balance, a car built in the last 20 years or so should last longer than an older one. But that's admittedly largely an assumption based on anecdotal observations.

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[ds968]

[quote name='craigawoodman' timestamp='1369533571' post='143112']

I one had a friend who had an old 1970's Chrysler Valiant that he wanted to junk. So they took it bush, trashed it mercilessly and yet it still ran. Ended up taking the air cleaner off the Darby and fed it small rocks - and it still ran. You could not kill this thing - it was over engineered which made it bullet proof. Now everything is optimised, rotating mass, inertia, etc, so that if one variable is wrong, the whole thing self destructs

[/quote]



Amen !

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[craigawoodman]

From memory, the old Valiant had a brick placed on the accelerator and allowed to valve bounce for a while in an attempt to throw a rod, but it still didn't detonate. It was then that the idea of feeding it rocks was thought up. I am sure that it would not have run as well as prior to the abuse, but it still ran.



Look at the towing capacity of new cars. They are heavier, crash better, but you cannot tow anything with them. Older cars, if you wanted to, you could tow your house behind it.



I also remember, my father opened his 1972 Valiant's door and a near new Ford Lazer drove into it. The Ford was nearly a write off, but the Valiant's door was largely unscathed (the trailing edge was damaged, but it still shut). I know old cars are worse to be in as an occupant in a crash, but they were built literally like tanks compared to today's cars.



Hopefully, the solution to the issue will be to fill up the transmission, seal the leak and life will go on. If not, buy something 2 years old that still has warranty and laugh all the way to the bank.

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[Rap]

DS, wouldn't you and your wife feel safer and sleep better at nite if you bought him a newer car with all the modern technological and safety components? After all, this should not just be about money. Do the right thing and keep your child safe!

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[Cloud9...68]

Rap makes a good point - there's more to the decision than money, and newer cars certainly are safer.

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[ds968]

No doubt new cars are a lot safer than the 70s and 80s ones, but not so sure the safety delta between the mid 2000s and today's cars is all that great..I'll have to look at some stats and see which and how material the results are.. When we bought the Altima safety was certainly the number 1 consideration, followed by reliability ( ironically contradictory word, Re-Liability..so liability repeated ? Lol ) at number 2 . We'll keep the same focus this time around, so you guys are definitely right about sleeping easier..

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[ds968]

Bought him a 2011 Nissan Sentra with 40k miles on it. $ 12 k . metallic silver/grey and he really likes the car so that helped the decision, lol. It has very high ratings for both safety and reliability so the parents will sleep easier :-) A rather insignificant feature but nonetheless one which both my son

and I like quite a bit is the placement of the shifter which is on the " ramp " leading up to the instrument console , rather than on the " floor " .



And we're keeping the Altima as a " spare car " forth time being. The tranny repair cost was $ 600. Pan, solenoids and valve body replaced,

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[Rap]

Dan I need some money to repair my red 968. I'm concerned with your irregular sleep patterns and would like to help you get a good nights sleep. For $3000 I can get my car repaired and now be safe again. In return for your investment, I will once again be safe. I'm safe you sleep. I think this is a fair deal and perhaps you even come out ahead some. Because I like you and think your a nice guy this will be ok with me. If you will please give me a call we con conclude the transaction! Your sons a lucky guy. Does he know this? Lol

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[Inkedupfatboy]

I was surprised you just didn't buy him a nice 968 that a little old lady only drove to church on Sundays.

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[craigawoodman]

No wonder kids don't leave home until they are in their 30's. my parents pretty much kicked me out when I was 18 (you are old enough to drink over here at 18). Multiple TV's, computers, free Internet, washing done, meals cooked, what's not to like. You don't even get treated like that if you got married now - and a free car!

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[Rap]

Maybe we should move in with Dan.

Of course far be it for me to criticize. Instead of giving my kids money I hire them!

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[ds968]

Bob, your insomnia cure suggestion was compelling, but after spending ALL my money on my son's new wheels all I can say is you should not be holding your breath waiting for the mail to deliver your check ..



"Ink" , trust me if I would have found that 968 I would have bought it as my own daily driver..even if it meant stalking that little old lady on her way to and from church to intimidate her into selling it, LOL



Craig, that does seem to be pretty much the norm these days ( around here anyway ) and while I don't disagree that a kick in the pants to make it on their own might help build more character and teach some young men a real life lesson, for now until he finishes college and keeps getting straight As at it , does not do drugs, does not smoke, does not drink - that last one is more of a flaw than an attribute though, LOL - has not gotten anyone pregnant ( yet..), no speeding or other traffic tickets since he started driving six years ago, I don't really mind all that much providing him with a few things that may be construed to be " spoiling " .. If I tell you how many parents around here are spending 10x that amount annually on their kids' drug or alcohol rehab or on lawyers to keep them out of jail, etc.. you might be shocked . And all upper middle class folks ...

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[flash]

does not drink??? you sure he's your son?

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[Rap]

No trouble? Geez your sure he's just not flying under your radar? I honed my ground hugging terrain avoidance techniques and got real good like! Send me those parents sending their kids to rehab! I'll save them tens of thousands and you can get all the credit. I'm disappointed you chose not to accept my offer. Was your wife consulted on this? Lol

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[Inkedupfatboy]

We did it. The kids got hauled around until they went off to school, then realized they didn't know how to drive so they hired an instructor. We bought the first daughter to get her license a1994 Grand Marquis that I bought from my neighbor the retired NASA engineer. Paid $2K Got a spreadsheet with it of every oil change ever. I think it had 150K on it and almost three years later, she takes care of the car the same way and it is still like new.



Couldn't find another "cherry" so to speak, went to Hyundai and bought an 2011 Accent for $13K. It was a "Certifed Used Car" and I still had to put over a grand in it. Of course she trashed it. Several instances of collisions with immovable objects and trashed interior. Oh well, it's her car.



I got the same - "When you are 18, you are your own problem and your out the door speach too." Glad I did.

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[ds968]

[quote name='flash' timestamp='1370183372' post='143477']does not drink??? you sure he's your son?[/quote]



Yeah, no s**t ! Every time the mail delivery guy comes by I take a really close look , LOL

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[Cloud9...68]

I can top Dan's story. When our older daughter turned 16, we bought her (correction - it was mostly grandma's money - I'm a 53 year-old engineer, senior member of the technical staff at my company, comfortably in the 95th percentile income-wise, and I still rely on my parents for financial help...) 2004 BMW 325i for close to the same money as the Sentra Dan bought for his son. She's interested in going to Colorado for college (only if she gets enough in scholarship money to cover the delta represented by out-of-state tuition), so my wife announces that if she goes to Colorado, we need to buy her an all-wheel-drive vehicle! Sheesh!

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[DaveN]

I'll just chime in briefly and concur with ds968. Some people think our 2 boys are spoiled with food, laundry, their own car for University (93 Jetta, 96 Camry), guitars (my 19 year old has 10ks worth-sheesh!). But, they get/got great marks(my oldest is 26 with a degree in Marine Biolog) , don't smoke, dont do drugs, respect anyone they meet and get along great with seniors; one of my wife's big beefs with young people today.

So I have a big overdraft and a mortgage, sort of worth it in the long run.



PS the 26 year old doesn't live here anymore, I'm soft not stupid :-D

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[craigawoodman]

As for the doesn't do drugs, doesn't smoke, etc - I can only hope as I have two girls. I certainly hope the hasn't got pregnant bit applies to my girls as well.



Just had a presentation from the State Drugs squad regarding synthetic drugs - what an eye opener. Lots more issues around than when we were young. Caught up with my nieces on the trip across Australia, the youngest one goes to my old school as a senior, what she told me goes on made my eyes water. Glad that the two girls are going to a girls only school from next term. The youngest one (almost 10 told us this week that she had a boyfriend who is two years above her in school - anyone selling a shotgun?).



I have had the same conversation with my wife about the girls being out the door at 18, will be interesting to see if they are mature enough.



My wife's suggestion is we buy or rent an appartment for them.



Damned if you do, damned if you don't.



I agree that if they can avoid getting hooked up into drugs, it is possibly more than half the battle.

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