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Timing belt change
#61

there is no real way to test the belts in the car. it's the elasticity that is the issue. you could remove them and test them, but then why put them back in?
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94 Midnight Metallic Blue Cab Porsche 968 w/deviating cashmere/black interior and WAY too many mods to list - thanks to eric for creating www.968forums.com



"It isn't nearly as expensive to do it right as it is to do it wrong."
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#62

gmroyston--



timing chain, pads, chain tensioner oil line, timing belt & roller, balance belt, engine mounts, new plugs, and oil service.....just under $3500.



I had a few engine codes and a couple other things to clean up, but the "core" list above comes in at that price for me. Also, just one oil leak that chased back to the filter area, so, I'm lucky in that respect.



I had no choice, as the car had ZERO maintenance records other than word of mouth. So I'm establishing a baseline @ 105K
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'94 Cabriolet, Iris Blue /Classic Grey
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#63

I know I need to do my belts soon. I am nearing 5 years and have 20,000 miles. I have a 944 flywheel lock and would like to modify it to work on a 968. Does anyone have the dimensions for the extension that goes into the starter hole? Or would someone be willing to lend one or rent one? If I borrowed one I would be more motivated to get it done.

Dwight Anderson

94 with 164,000
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#64

5 years? ouch



just buy one. they're cheap. then you'll have it for the clutch job or whatever else
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94 Midnight Metallic Blue Cab Porsche 968 w/deviating cashmere/black interior and WAY too many mods to list - thanks to eric for creating www.968forums.com



"It isn't nearly as expensive to do it right as it is to do it wrong."
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#65

I had not looked them up for a few years and I saw on Paragon they are much cheaper than they used to be. My fault.

Dwight Anderson
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#66

I just finished my belt change a few days ago. Here are a few pointers to help make the job go more smoothly:



1. Go ahead and unplug the fan motor connectors, and remove the fan. This will give you a lot more room to work.



2. To set the engine at <acronym title='top dead center'>TDC</acronym> in cylinder No. 1, remove the rubber cap on top of the distributor, then rotate the engine clockwise by hand until the mark on the camshaft sprocket lines up with the notch in the back belt assembly cover. Then, go to the back of the engine, and on the drivers side, look for the opening in the top of the bell housing. There should be a mark on the flywheel that is visible. If you car doesn't have the window on the distributor, I would go ahead and remove the distributor now, since you're going to have to do that anyway, to ensure that you're at <acronym title='top dead center'>TDC</acronym>. The rotor should be pointing at about 11:00 oclock, iirc, at <acronym title='top dead center'>TDC</acronym>.



3. With the engine at <acronym title='top dead center'>TDC</acronym>, the "O" that's stamped on the upper balance shaft belt sprocket that's peeking through the oval-shaped hole in the cover should be on the top half of the pulley. Then, get a mirror and look at the bottom half of the lower BS sprocket. The "O" on that sprocket should be peeking through a rectangular opening on the bottom half of the sprocket. And of course, the indents in both sprockets should be pointing directly at their respective marks in the plastic housing behind the belt assembly.



4. To remove the timing belt, you have to remove the tensioner. To do this, you have to remove the chrome-plated guide that sits along the bottom of the belt, which is held in by four M6 bolts. You also have to loosen (but not necessarly completely remove) the few bolts in the vicinity of the tensioner that hold the plastic back cover for the belt assembly. Doing this will allow you to pull this cover foreward, which will allow you to maneuver the tensioner out.



5. When installing the timing belt, it should be pretty tight on its upper run, which extends uninterrupted between the camshaft sprocket and the crankshaft sprocket. With the belt positioned correctly, you should count 48 belt teeth between the cog on the camshaft sprocket that sits immediately to the right of the mark on the cam sprocket, and the cog on the crankshaft sprocket that sits immediately outboard of the "105" part number that's stamped in the crankshaft sprocket. In order to get this to happen, you will likely have to slightly rotate the camshaft sprocket clockwise, just enough to move the belt over by one tooth relative to where it want to naturally lay. You will have to overcome to retaining force of the valve springs to do this, and the sprocket will snap back into place after you're moved the belt over. Bulti told me he used a tool he had fabricated to hold the pullies in place while he was turning the M10 bots that hold them in place. I fabricated a tool from some hardware I had used earlier for a different purpose. You may have to get creative, but you will need to figure out some way to rotate the cam sprocket enough to move the belt over by one tooth relative to how it wants to sit if you just lay it in place, as this will leave too much slack in the belt, and will throw your cam timing off. For me, this was the trickiest part of the job - thanks to Bulti for explaining the need to rotate the cam sprocket, and to Porsche96G for confiming the 48-tooth count.



6. Remember that when setting the balance shaft belt tightness and clearance between the bottom of the idler pulley and the pulley below, that the spec for the location of the top of the idler pulley relative to the BS belt is a deflection, not a clearance. It calls for a 0.1 mm deflection, which is way to small to measure accurately. Just make sure the BS belt is slightly in contact with the top of the idler pulley.



The rest of the steps are pretty straightforward. Good luck with the job, and post or IM if you have any questions.
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#67

   

   

 

Guys, I'm trying to figure out what that orange/rust-color is on the outer edge ( the only one visible through the belt cover "plug" space ) of one of my timing belts ..??   The other car's belt in the other photo has only a slight trace of discoloration in a few spots no bigger than a mm, but this one has a streak throughout its side's entire circumference.  I tried to look at it with a magnifying glass and still can't figure it out.  I was worried that it may be the reinforcing fibers or wire mesh or whatever is used in the composition of the belt that's starting to show because of deterioration, or because the belt's edge may have rubbed against something causing that, although to the touch it's completely smooth so the probability of fibers protruding trough is extremely unlikely, and i don't think there is anything there the belts edge can touch so it remains a mystery.  The top of the two belts is identical in look and feel, as are the teeth, so its just that side difference that's driving me batty.  Do any of your belts show something similar or are the sides completely jet-black ?                         

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#68

Uh..I think I answered my own question; did some research and discovered a couple of interesting things : since multiple timing belts are cut from a larger ( wider ) swatch , the sides of the majority which are cut will show some of that fiber grid inside the rubber. If you end up with one of the two outer edges of the swatch belts, and in turn that outside edge of the belt itself is placed facing the front of the car ( the part seen through the cover gap ) , then you will only have the solid rubber showing, otherwise this is what it will probably look like - the photo is of a new Gates belt segment

   

Speaking of Gates, they are making a super strength, high temperature resistant and what they claim has 300% more durability and longevity " racing belt ". It's their blue belt line . I don't suppose we would be so lucky that they also make it for the 968.. I'll call to inquire but not holding my breath, I think the likelihood is zero, IMO. Here's the ink : http://www.gatesracing.com/products/timing-belts
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#69

If you were to work with Gates on getting a racing belt made, it could be done, but its a bit if a process. This is what a supplier of 928 parts did, so there is now one available for the 928, but it took a while. I think there maybe one for the 944 now also.
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Current:
2016 Cayman S
Former:
94 968 Cab 6 Spd. Black/Cashmere D1R SC
86.5 928 Garnet Red Metallic
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#70

A few years ago, Rennbay offered a carbon fiber reinforced belt for the 944 (not sure who made it), but I believe it's no longer available.  

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#71

Sigh, regretfully I don't think it's economically feasible for them to produce "special" 968 belts, I would think there is a far greater market demand for 944 belts so parts dealers could probably make a compelling case for Gates, but very doubtful that anyone trying to leverage the potential market of the forums ( both ours and RL ) will be nearly as successful . I'll inquire, nonetheless..unless one of the ( current or future ) owners prefers to do that.
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#72

i spoke to the guy at rennbay about this a few years ago.  the volume required to get going was not feasible.  somebody was going to have to pony up a chunk of change.  one of the roadblocks was any data on suitability and longevity.  it was a new untested product.  not sure if there is any new information.

 

the idea is sound.  the reality may not be.

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94 Midnight Metallic Blue Cab Porsche 968 w/deviating cashmere/black interior and WAY too many mods to list - thanks to eric for creating www.968forums.com



"It isn't nearly as expensive to do it right as it is to do it wrong."
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#73

A lot of the 928's are running them now, at least 4 years now. They have been watching cam gear wear and all that and it seems to be working out well. But yes it takes a large financial commitment to get them made which is what the 928 parts supplier did.
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Current:
2016 Cayman S
Former:
94 968 Cab 6 Spd. Black/Cashmere D1R SC
86.5 928 Garnet Red Metallic
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#74

if i'm not mistaken, one of the belts for us already exists, as it was the same for the later 944, when they went wider.  the other one however does not.

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94 Midnight Metallic Blue Cab Porsche 968 w/deviating cashmere/black interior and WAY too many mods to list - thanks to eric for creating www.968forums.com



"It isn't nearly as expensive to do it right as it is to do it wrong."
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#75

I think it was the balance belt, which isn't all that important strength wise, unless of course it breaks and finds it's way into the timing belt.
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Current:
2016 Cayman S
Former:
94 968 Cab 6 Spd. Black/Cashmere D1R SC
86.5 928 Garnet Red Metallic
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#76

Yup, it was the balance belt , Kevlar-reinforced. Not sure why the heck they did not also make a timing belt .
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#77

Finally finished replacing timing and balance belts, idlers and both tensioners, following (hopefully correctly) all the steps described in this topic, the referenced 10 page pdf procedure and another from Clarks Garage. Have only run the engine for several minutes since completing belt ptoject, including a short low speed run around the block. I'm hearing a distinct ticking that wasn't there before. Probed with the stethascope and it sounds like it's coming from the valve gallery, a bit louder toward the rear. The ticking is loud enough that if it were coming from my '88 911 3.2, I'd adjust the valves immediately.

 

I will dive back in and double check cam and flywheel TDC marks, etc, but would appreciate your advice:

 

1) Is a ticking valve a likely result from missing the timing marks by one tooth on the belt, or would you expect more dramatic symptoms than this ticking?

 

2) I also removed the valve cover to replace all the rubber gaskets to address small oil residue in spark plug recesses and to visually check variocam chain pads. Any possibility of a problem here? Didn't touch anything in the valve gear.

 

3) I have seen posts that suggest valve ticking is common with a 968 that has not been run in some time. Mine has been down for a couple of months for this and power steering hose and clutch master cylinder replacement (two more PITA projects). But I'm reluctant to run it further lest i really damage something.

 

4) In the initial installation, before installing flywheel lock, the cam timing mark was spot on and the flywheel mark (thru the upper viewing port) looked correct, but was hard to see precisely. The flywheel had a red paint mark applied during an earlier belt change but was fairly sloppy (couldn't get a good view of the machine mark alignment with the tab), so I locked the flywheel in this position since the engine ran really well prior to this, the cam mark was aligned and the flywheel mark was close. As described elsewhere in one of the forums, I did have to slightly rotate the cam sprocket with a rubber strap wrench to get the new belt teeth to engage, but re-checked alignment marks after installation and manually turning engine a couple of revolutions. Now, if I'm off a tooth, how best to confirm this?

 

5) There is a dime-sized hole in the front of the lower flywheel cover, but i did not see a mark when the other two appeared in alignment. The 968 shop manual describes three marks visible through one of three large openings (and what may be the dime sized hole), but my flywheel cover did not look like the illustration in the manual, so I gave up on it. If the cam sprocket marks line up exactly and the upper flywheel mark is visible and very close to alignment,  does the lower flywheel mark matter?

 

Thanks for all your help,

P38

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#78

its probably a lifter ticking, it should go away eventually especially as you say its been laid up for a couple of months

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1992 968 Coupe

1986 Honda VF1000 FII

2016 Volvo XC90 D5 R-Design

 
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#79

The flywheel rotates once for every two revolutions of the camshaft gear, so if you do not see the three marks trough the hole, rotate the camshaft gear one more turn.


It could very well be that the noise is caused by a hydraulic valve tappet. They can get stuck, but with some luck and after driving for a while the collapsed one(s) should work properly again.


If not, they can be cleaned. There is some good stuff on YouTube about that.
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#80

or you can buy a set for an Audi 100 they are .3 of a mm taller but they work fine £45 for 16 on ebay

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1992 968 Coupe

1986 Honda VF1000 FII

2016 Volvo XC90 D5 R-Design

 
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