[SamSparks]

[quote name='tryan' timestamp='1405182078' post='159992']

Mr Sparks, yes, you can cut the old belt but the sprocket still needs to come off to install the new belt. Sometimes you have to skin the cat)) Unlike the 944 and previous variants, the timing belt tensioner is automatic on this motor.. No need for the tensioning tool on the timing belt but you will need it for the other balance belt and ancillaries. The Porsche tool is expensive (there is one on eBay) and the cricket thing looks pretty cheesy and possibly inconsistent. Look at arnworks offerings and I think there is value and quality in his products.

[/quote]



Many thanks Tryan,



Thanks to you and the other great posters on this thread, I've now got the 'big picture' sorted out.



Now to sweat the procedural details....Clark's guide, the Porsche Worshop Manual, the various tips and vids on this thread and elsewhere on 968Forums, various how-to-guides.....



(There doesn't seem to be a UK distributor of the ArnnWorx tools - I'll email them about Int'l shipping).



The Internet just wasn't around when Niels Bohr said: "An expert is a man who has made all the mistakes, which can be made, in a very narrow field."



Y'all come back now,



Sam

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[SamSparks]

[quote name='ds968' timestamp='1405180617' post='159990']

Keep in mind another thing - the belts may have been sitting on a dealer shelf as long as 6 years before being sold and installed in the car, so you COULD have 17 year old belts in that car. ( six years "shelf life" is the maximum recommended allowance by Gates to their dealers, but if you have Contis or something else in there which are , reportedly , unlikely to be as well built as Gates are.....tick, tick, and it's a $ 6,000 job ! )

[/quote]



Hi Dan,



That's very worrying.



A message I take from this thread is that ~4 years is about the safe life-span of the belts irrespective of use.



So, could a 'new' belt be effectively DOA? Or, is the life-span on a shelf different from the life-span while installed in an engine? (And is there any way of knowing manufacturing date prior to purchase?)



I had same issue with tyres recently. Replaced perfectly good (visually) low-mileage tyres because they were age-expired. I went to a lot of trouble to get new Pirellis with a very recent date of manufacture.

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[ds968]

[quote name='SamSparks' timestamp='1405242807' post='160003']

Hi Dan,

That's very worrying.

A message I take from this thread is that ~4 years is about the safe life-span of the belts irrespective of use.

So, could a 'new' belt be effectively DOA? Or, is the life-span on a shelf different from the life-span while installed in an engine? (And is there any way of knowing manufacturing date prior to purchase?)

I had same issue with tyres recently. Replaced perfectly good (visually) low-mileage tyres because they were age-expired. I went to a lot of trouble to get new Pirellis with a very recent date of manufacture.[/quote]



Gates belts have a code printed on them which shows the manufacturing date , I posted that info with a photo of the coding somewhere in an old thread on this forum but can't seem to bring it up with "search" at this moment . Will keep trying and respost it when I find it.

I recently spoke to Gates reps and they indicate that they are encouraging all all their dealers not to sell old stock belts in spite of the theoretical shelf life and they believe most dealers are complying with that so chances are you'll get a belt that's fairly " fresh " . I have no knowledge of any other manufacturers only what I've heard from others - with Contis you're taking a bigger risk, Dayco are probably as good as Gates, they were OE at one point but no idea if they still make them for the 968. I believe most Porsche dealers sell Gates now as the OE. But I could be wrong . In my personal opinion , the " 4 years regardless of mileage " is a bit extreme, BUT given that the risk is a $ 6,000 bet ( unless you fix it yourself in which case it may be $ 2,500 or so ) it's the prudent thing to do . Good insurance .

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[ds968]

Found the thread but don't know how to copy and post it here using my iPad - search this thread title : " timing belt shelf life - PSA " , started by me on Dec 10 2012.

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[flash]

the 4 year mark comes from reading about and watching failures over the last 11 years, and looking at how old the belts were when they failed. the failures were largely at or beyond the 5 year mark, but a surprising amount close to 5 years. that seems to indicate a limit in lifespan. changing at 4 years should ensure avoidance of the dreaded $5k plus repair due to valve crash

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[SamSparks]

[quote name='ds968' timestamp='1405265094' post='160008']



Gates belts have a code printed on them which shows the manufacturing date , I posted that info with a photo of the coding somewhere in an old thread on this forum but can't seem to bring it up with "search" at this moment .    Will keep trying and respost it when I find it.

I recently spoke to Gates reps and they indicate that they are encouraging all all their dealers not to sell old stock belts in spite of the theoretical shelf life and they believe most dealers are complying with that so chances are you'll get a belt that's fairly " fresh " .  I have no knowledge of any other manufacturers only what I've heard from others - with Contis you're taking a bigger risk,  Dayco are probably as good as Gates, they were OE at one point but no idea if they still make them for the 968.  I believe most Porsche dealers sell Gates now as the OE. But I could be wrong .  In my personal opinion , the " 4 years regardless of mileage " is a bit extreme,  BUT given that the risk is a $ 6,000 bet ( unless you fix it yourself in which case it may be $ 2,500 or so ) it's the prudent thing to do .  Good insurance .

[/quote]



Dan,



Brilliant! Or should that be (at the risk of using dangerously outdated stereotypical Californian slang): Like, totally rad, dude!



Did some checking. 968 Gates belts appear to be readily available in UK. Conti belts seem to be the most widely available. Dayco least available. My take is that Gates is preferred on this forum.



Will email Gates Europe and the most prominent UK resellers and ask about getting a heads-up on the date code on a belt before they ship it.



BTW, I'm amazed how widely available all 968 parts are in the UK.



Rock on

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[SamSparks]

[quote name='flash' timestamp='1405266240' post='160011']

the 4 year mark comes from reading about and watching failures over the last 11 years, and looking at how old the belts were when they failed.  the failures were largely at or beyond the 5 year mark, but a surprising amount close to 5 years.  that seems to indicate a limit in lifespan.  changing at 4 years should ensure avoidance of the dreaded $5k plus repair due to valve crash

[/quote]



Checked Gates website. Says 968 belts are good for 45k miles or 72 months.



So as you say, changing belts before 5 years, and ideally around 4 years, would appear to very wise - building-in a good safety factor given the costly consequences of failure.



My belts are now at 4.5 years, albeit with very low mileage. Knowing what I know now (thanks to you and others on this forum), I'd have begun my belt replacement project six months ago.

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[SamSparks]

[quote name='ds968' timestamp='1405265899' post='160010']

Found the thread but don't know how to copy and post it here using my iPad - search this thread title : " timing belt shelf life - PSA " , started by me on Dec 10 2012.

[/quote]



Found it! Great. Thanks.

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[tryan]

Others sell the arnworx tools like pelican and paragon for like 5 more bucks.



My OEM Porsche timing belt arrived today and it is a dayco product as is the old one. The box that the belt arrived in shows 06-03-2014, which is either June or March. The ROW lists the day then month as standard nomenclature. No date marking on the belt though.

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[SamSparks]

[quote name='tryan' timestamp='1405371515' post='160071']

Others sell the arnworx tools like pelican and paragon for like 5 more bucks.



My OEM Porsche timing belt arrived today and it is a dayco product as is the old one. The box that the belt arrived in shows 06-03-2014, which is either June or March. The ROW lists the day then month as standard nomenclature. No date marking on the belt though.

[/quote]





Many thanks.



I'll check out Pelican & Paragon this evening.



My impression, based on past experience (a long story) is that they are great to deal with, and that international shipping to the UK is no problem - and fast.



Am I worrying too much about which belt manufacturer is best - Gates, Dayco, Conti...?

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[Bulti]

Be on the safe side and choose Gates.

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[tryan]

My little surprise was the upper balance shaft cog being off three teeth...... dealer did the last belt change.... my my. All the seals are good except for the oil pump housing.



I get this gut feeling to replace the tensioner...

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[flash]

that happens a lot. that belt is supposed to be retensioned every year, or 15k miles, whichever comes first. it's really loose to begin with, and if it stretches, it's pretty easy to have it jump. to make matters worse, the shop manual has an illustration which looks at first glance like a gap measurement, when in reality it is a deflection measurement. getting this wrong results in the belt being a lot looser than it is supposed to be.

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[Chris Vais]

SamSparks - My 968 is 20 years old with about 153K on the clock. I've been very religious about replacing belts every 30,000K or 3 years and I've had no belt failures during my ownership of the car. I did have a balance shaft belt failure within a week or two of buying the car. But with 30,000/3 schedule nothing since. I put about 10K per year on the car.



I have, in recent months needed to replace break pads and rotors all the way around, I have a leaking oil pan gasket, and some minor cosmetic problems. Car could use a new set of door seals, if for no other reason to quiet down the cabin noise. I've also had knock seniors and O2 sensor replacements to do. That said, and considering the the average annual operating cost for a car that has been paid for 16 years, I think the 968 is a bargain even with the minor problems. I do stay on top of the routine maintenance. I think where people get into trouble with these cars is that as they get older the tendency is to defer maintenance, not a good idea at all. I do have access to a repair shop that knows these cars very well.



The only "catastrophic" failures I've had have been an alternator failure, that left me driving only on the battery through a very dodgy part of Oakland, clutch line failure that required driving the car home without benefit of the clutch, and a coolant hose failure that occurred deep in the bowls of a parking garage in San Francisco.



My advice, get the car current on maintenance, keep it that way, and enjoy the ride. You'll not be disappointed.

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[SamSparks]

[quote name='Chris Vais' timestamp='1405452479' post='160130']

SamSparks - My 968 is 20 tears old with about 153K on the clock. I've been very religious about replacing belts every 30,000K or 3 years and I've had no belt failures during my ownership of the car. I did have a balance shaft belt failure within a week or two of buying the car. But with 30,000/3 schedule nothing since. I put about 10K per year on the car.



I have, in recent months needed to replace break pads and rotors all the way around, I have a leaking oil pan gasket, and some minor cosmetic problems. Car could use a new set of door seals, if for no other reason to quiet down the cabin noise. I've also had knock seniors and O2 sensor replacements to do. That said, and considering the the average annual operating cost for a car that has been paid for 16 years, I think the 968 is a bargain even with the minor problems. I do stay on top of the routine maintenance. I think where people get into trouble with these cars is that as they get older the tendency is to defer maintenance, not a good idea at all. I do have access to a repair shop that knows these cars very well.



The only "catastrophic" failures I've had have been an alternator failure, that left me driving only on the battery through a very dodgy part of Oakland, clutch line failure that required driving the car home without benefit of the clutch, and a coolant hose failure that occurred deep in the bowls of a parking garage in San Francisco.



My advice, get the car current on maintenance, keep it that way, and enjoy the ride. You'll not be disappointed.

[/quote]







Thanks Chris for your very helpful comments and advice.



Like you, I've owned my 968 for nearly 20 years (not, however, 'tears' like you). Much of that time it was my daily driver - with a lot of 'chariot racing' (i.e., everyday driving) around the streets of London. Only time it let me down was a clutch failure - but even then, I still managed to get it home. It has always been maintained meticulously by Official Porsche Centers until recently. I'm now in the midst of transitioning to a self-supporting mode.



Over that 20 years, every time I had contact with a Porsche Center (across the land as I moved around), they tried to sell me a new car. I got to test drive 'em all. Each time they'd ask, "well, how was it?". I'd always say: "Yep, nice, but no thanks. But, the very day Porsche come out with a new '968' my money will be on the table".



Still waiting...



BTW, yesterday I stumbled across this - some guy at flussig magazine's vision of a 968 with modern Porsche design. Rear vents? Nah.... But, a guy can dream eh?

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[SamSparks]

[quote name='Bulti' timestamp='1405427100' post='160101']

Be on the safe side and choose Gates.

[/quote]





Many thanks. Gates it is!

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[SamSparks]

[quote name='tryan' timestamp='1405371515' post='160071']

Others sell the arnworx tools like pelican and paragon for like 5 more bucks.



My OEM Porsche timing belt arrived today and it is a dayco product as is the old one. The box that the belt arrived in shows 06-03-2014, which is either June or March. The ROW lists the day then month as standard nomenclature. No date marking on the belt though.

[/quote]



Tryan



I checked my box of bits from the last time my timing belt was changed.



According to the timing belt carton (OEM Porsche), the belt was 3 years old at the time of installation. (The lettering on the old belt itself is too worn to read).



Would it have been overly fussy not to have accepted that at the time?

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[tryan]

Next time you will know)) I am going Gates on my other replacements since that is the consensus

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[gmroyston]

So I'm a new 968 owner. The belts were changed in May 2010 at about 93,000 miles. Car now has 105,000. After reading these comments, seems like I'm due for a change. Didn't know about the age factor when buying the car. I live in Maryland so not sure climate is a big factor. But it's easy to get paranoid after reading this forum. How dangerous is it really to go past 4 years? Is there any way to inspect the belts before changing them? And what's the going rate to do the belts and water pump?

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[MCL968]

Too dangerous in my opinion. Mine were in the same condition and age when I bought my 92, and when I pulled them, they were oil soaked and were starting to break down. I changed the seals at the same time.

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