[mrorange49]

I use to have a 944 turbo a few years ago and recently purchased a 93 968 cab.



I'm looking to to improve the suspension all they way around (car doesn't have M030). 1st lets start with sway bars, my local shop is recommending the weltmeister pro series (like at performance products) i think like $700 front $550 rear. Any of you guys have any experience with them? or what would you recommend?



also side topic, what coil-over sets would you recommend in the 1700-2500 range?



mainly looking to cross the car at local events pca, etc. this is not a daily driver, it will mostly be a weekend car to take up to the mountains and what not.

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[flash]

this seriously depends on the guy doing the tweaking - dialing in sway bars is a bit of an art - i am going through this right now, as i am making new ones - adjusting the weltmeisters, while easy in the actual adjustment, is very difficult in the determination of how much adjustment and where



if you don't have access to a track for testing, and a good suspension guy, go with a fixed length bar like the M030 - you can get them for under 400 bucks for the pair - they work pretty well, and they don't require any dialing in

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[mrorange49]

[quote name='flash' post='29729' date='Jan 9 2007, 06:41 PM']this seriously depends on the guy doing the tweaking - dialing in sway bars is a bit of an art - i am going through this right now, as i am making new ones - adjusting the weltmeisters, while easy in the actual adjustment, is very difficult in the determination of how much adjustment and where



if you don't have access to a track for testing, and a good suspension guy, go with a fixed length bar like the M030 - you can get them for under 400 bucks for the pair - they work pretty well, and they don't require any dialing in[/quote]



its a reputable shop thats been racing Porsches in a few classes for over 30 years (they use to race a 968 as well), so i trust they know what to do.



but i am leaning towards a fixed system like the set M030 set from Paragon, so i wouldn't have to worry a lot of dialing in. it would also give me a little more money to put in some other mods. what else would you recommend as far as suspension?

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[968rz]

Oh Oh ! You dropped a quarter in the slot now <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/wink.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />. Flash has been messing with the suspension on his car allot and has tried darn near everything, if there is such a thing as a suspension geek he would be it. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/laugh.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[bob blackwell]

I recommend the M030 sway bars from Paragon Products. I used the Weltmeister sway bars on my 1987 924S as well as my 1989 944S2 and find the M030 factory bars every bit as good and not nearly so much time required to get them set up right. My 968 is my daily driver as well as my week-end fun car. I run the M030 bar in the rear on the firm setting (third hole in from the end) and it does not feel too firm. good luck, Bob Blackwell.

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[wjk_glynn]

Here's a list of part numbers for the M030 sway bars. Note that the prices are 4-years old.







Karl.

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[rustech]

I think I paid very much the same just mid last year. Sunset is definately recommended.

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[sguy]

I also put in M030 bars last year and it really is a great improvement, even with the rubber bushings. I'll probably go with Poly bushes later. Sunset made me the best deal for the bar set.



Cheers,

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[Eric_K]

I believe the Weltmeister Pro series are the Tarret Engineering style sway bars - not the old gold anodized stuff. The Tarrets are a step above the M030's and priced like it. The front and rear are fully adjustable where as the M030 only has some adjustment on the rear.

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[flash]

ira makes some great stuff - no doubt - i love seeing what he's up to every time i go to a show - the adjustability is great - but you can easily end up with a mess if you don't know what you're doing with them - very cool for a dedicated race car, with the potential to really dial the car in, if you have the time to play with them



bottom line, the initial investment is only the beginning of the cost of those bars, so be prepared - but then, that next bit of performance is always geometrically more costly than the previous amount - lol - this car is beginning to be a lot like a boat for me (big hole in the water you pour money into) the more i seek those last bits

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[mrorange49]

I'm going to check with Sunset to see about getting the M030's I think. That should give me a little more to put into coil-overs and maybe some bushings. what do you guys think of the Bilstein Escort Cups?

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[Larry Weinstein]

Would it be worth doing the swaybars WITHOUT the coilovers?

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[bob blackwell]

Larry, in my experience it is definately worth doing the sway bars without adding the coilovers. I am using the Koni, gas adjustable (Yellow, Sport) front struts with H&R progressive rate lowering springs in front (190# - 230# rate) and in the rear I used 28mm Torsion Bars and the Koni, gas adjustable (Yellow, sport) shocks. I have not needed any coilovers in the rear. Once the torsion bars were indexed to allow the car to sit level with the lower front, I have not needed to make any further adjustments. My M030 sway bars are set on the firm position for both street and track. The rear Koni shocks are set on the firm setting for both street and track. The front struts are set on soft for the street and quickly adjusted to the firm setting for the track. My ride is firm, but not too harsh. Good luck, Bob Blackwell.

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[Mark]

M030 sways without doing anything else makes a big difference.

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[333pg333]

Also remember the Welts are much heavier than the standard MO's so this is a consideration too. I agree with Flash. If you're not going to be really investing some time into tuning them stick with the MO's.

As for coilover kits, I would very much recommend the KW's as everyone knows. Check with

Karl / Wkglynn for local pricing. He has been doing some research.

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[Larry Weinstein]

Would anyone recommmend removing the torsion bar if you're going with coilovers in the rear? I know that's not allowed for PCA stock (not that anyone checks...) but that seems easier than indexing the bar.

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[333pg333]

I've heard that some people who must run the t-bars in their class, rather than go up in size they go down to something like a 10mm which is only paying lip service to the rules, and then go a full coilover.

That's just what I've heard mind you....

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[flash]

i removed the torsion bars completely - this was a ride height thing, and not becaue i wanted full coilovers - i couldn't get the car low enough without reindexing, and that just seemed like a waste of time for me



it's working for me, but not without its compromises - i do not recommend this for a street car - it requires that the full coilovers have spherical bearing ends instead of rubber bushings - the rubber just can't handle the whole load - this adds noise to the cabin that most people would not tolerate - not sure about the long term effects on the shock mounts either - a street car sees a lot more time than a track car, and reinforcing may well be needed - my car sees maybe 1000 miles a year, so it will be a long time before i see any issues, but the average driver will see them a lot sooner



not sure i made the right choice, as i am still sorting it out, but i think i'll get there in the end - the car would have been more civilized as a street car though, had i left the bars in there

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[Ryan]

I have the Welts on my 944S and the infinite adjusment is much finer than the three hole positions of the M030. That is not to say that it is much better. They come with drop links as well and you can dial out any pre-load on the bars.



You don't need a track to set up the bars. You can go to a big parking lot and drive in a circle. Keep going faster till you feel the results. If it understeers you need more rear bar and if it over steers...less. Get to the point where you get a four wheel drift and it is right-on.

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[EEZATOY]

Any tips on installing M030 sway bars?



Mine arrived this week(sunset) and are sitting in a box in the garage with the 928 brake bias valve <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/rolleyes.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

If the KLA bracket shows up this week (hopefully) I will have a weekend project <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/blink.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

I also have the drop links, but will probably hold off on those at first....



I'm not installing the valve; I'm waiting for the new cluch pressure hose <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/dry.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> to be releasted - then I do both and flush the whole system...



Thanks Sam

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