[ds968]

heard from a couple of sources this tire is the new holy grail : ( Vredestein ) Ultrac Sessanta

supposedly outperforms the Michelin PS2 and Goodyear F1 by such a huge margin, they're not even in the same class

might have to check into these

anyone have any info / experience with them ?

the photo of the design ( insert ) looks absolutely amazing, IMO -
   

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[94SilverCab]

http://www.performanceplustire.com/product...3678#prodAnchor

Regards,

Jay

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[RPM]

225/45/17 is $130 ea before shipping from that site.

I know that the classic 356 guys have been Vredestein fans for a long time. However, it is hard to imagine that these outperform the tires mentioned 'by a huge margin.' The balance between cost and performance is always the challenge with performance tires. The Sumitomo HTRZ III comes close to this holy grail, but no one would argue it is better than the top of the line Michelin or the like. It is merely really good - and also cheap.

The Guigaro design element is interesting - sure they may look good, but generally I want tire engineers (Vulcans?) to decide on optimum tread structure, not an Italian design house.

But then, you never know...

Vredestein manufacturer link

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[Ryan]

Wow...cheap 265/35-18 $159.00 Look is pretty wild too.

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[ds968]

I'm also a bit skeptical that anything can possibly be much better than the PS2s I have on now...well, by a significant
margin anyway.. but I've been reading so many posts on multiple sports car forums from drivers of all makes and models, all driving styles and needs, street, track, etc and while individual opinions are like (ahem ) bellybuttons , this tire seems to bring about a nearly unanimous conclusion - all of these people claim the difference to be day and night vs F1s, PS2s, SO3s, PZeros, Toyos top of the line, Yokos ( Yoko ?.. OH NO ! ) 1.. 2...3.., he, sorry, could not resist [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif[/img] , and all those famous ultra performance name brands at double the price. Perhaps too good to be true, but can all those people be way off on this ? On the other hand, if that was the case word of mouth alone would put this tire in the spotlight among the elite brands and available everywhere, at Tire Rack, America's Tire Co, etc.. yet, it's hardly known.

Or could be that others have the same issue which first came to my mind : how can possibly I drive a Porsche with a large " VREDESTEIN " name imprinted on the side walls of the tire ?! It's like driving with " KIRKLAND " tires , and at least those have some name recognition [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif[/img] , but are people going to think this is the new exclusive WalMart brand ? [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dry.gif[/img]

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[flash]

i have to ask the obvious question - are these reviews by people that BOUGHT the tire, or were GIVEN the tire for the purposes of testing?

nobody likes to say that they don't like something they plunked down their hard-earned money for - also, nobody likes to feel like there is something better out there

it's very hard to get a good "this is better than that" review of something when somebody had to purchase it - that's why i generally ignore those opinions form those who bought it

i'm sure the tire is decent - it may even be better than the rest - there is always something coming out that is better than the things before it - but until i hear some reviews from a magazine, or an independent tester, i'm taking such subjective comments with a grain of salt

i have yet to see any back to back comparisons of the tire's ability versus any other tire (skid tests, cornering speeds, yada yada)

i am in the market, and i will be watching these, but the jury is very much still out

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[xrad]

Great price...but need to see objective reports on sidewall characteristics, spped rating, grip, and wear.... Great size ranges!!

Designed by Italians (made where?).....maybe if I see them on Farrari's and Alfa's rims...

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[ds968]

<!--quoteo(post=66950:date=Feb 12 2009, 01:22 PM:name=flash)-->QUOTE (flash @ Feb 12 2009, 01:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->i have to ask the obvious question - are these reviews by people that BOUGHT the tire, or were GIVEN the tire for the purposes of testing?

nobody likes to say that they don't like something they plunked down their hard-earned money for - also, nobody likes to feel like there is something better out there

it's very hard to get a good "this is better than that" review of something when somebody had to purchase it - that's why i generally ignore those opinions form those who bought it

i'm sure the tire is decent - it may even be better than the rest - there is always something coming out that is better than the things before it - but until i hear some reviews from a magazine, or an independent tester, i'm taking such subjective comments with a grain of salt

i have yet to see any back to back comparisons of the tire's ability versus any other tire (skid tests, cornering speeds, yada yada)

i am in the market, and i will be watching these, but the jury is very much still out<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


good point , but even if half of those people were honest and had no reservations trash talking something they bought ( and I've seen plenty of that too ) it still seems to be an amazing product. like you though, I want to see
independent reviews and empirical data comparisons, rather than just "feel " input.. time will tell I suppose..
that said, when my MBZ tires are up for a change I think I'll still try these, they're too cheap not to, LOL !

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[flash]

something to consider: i just put a new pair of tires on the front of the denali - same exact model and size and everything

compared to the last tires, these are WAY better - remember, i said they were EXACTLY the same

given the same size and all that, new tires of pretty much any brand always feel better than the old ones that just came off

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[Ryan]

Quick....somebody put some of these italian loafers on their car and let us know.

Funny that no wear ratings or heat ranges are given on site.

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[ds968]

<!--quoteo(post=66988:date=Feb 13 2009, 07:24 AM:name=Ryan)-->QUOTE (Ryan @ Feb 13 2009, 07:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Quick....somebody put some of these italian loafers on their car and let us know.
Funny that no wear ratings or heat ranges are given on site.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif[/img] ( italian loafers remark ) sadly, I just realized they don't have the loafers in size 16 so I won't be able to put them on my MBZ, or my son's, or my wife's cars .. really was planning to do that soon as one of those other sets wore out

as for the site, I am very surprised as well ; how can one possibly not have the wear rating listed ? that's one of the key things I was trying to find

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[RPM]

Remember that tread wear ratings are assigned by the manufacturer and are only relative to their other tires. You cannot directly compare one tire's tread rating to another.

Tire Rack: tread wear ratings description

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[flash]

thanks for reminding me about that - i started a new thread and pinned it

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[ds968]

I'm pretty sure I'll order the Ultrac Sessanta for the 968 after all .. I was thinking about the Advan Neova, or the new Bridgestones' latest super performance tire but for only about $ 150 a piece and consistently great reviews, I'm really thinking I should give them a chance ..

BTW, in terms of longevity I'm pretty disappointed with my PS2s - I'm about 1/32 away from the wear limit and I've only logged 20k miles on them.
That's with 80% highway driving, no tracking ( except for a single event ), even hard cornering is extremely rare, so was hoping to get at least 30k or more out of these..

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[PorscheG96]

<!--quoteo(post=67522:date=Feb 21 2009, 01:39 PM:name=ds968)-->QUOTE (ds968 @ Feb 21 2009, 01:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I'm pretty sure I'll order the Ultrac Sessanta for the 968 after all .. I was thinking about the Advan Neova, or the new Bridgestones' latest super performance tire but for only about $ 150 a piece and consistently great reviews, I'm really thinking I should give them a chance ..

BTW, in terms of longevity I'm pretty disappointed with my PS2s - I'm about 1/32 away from the wear limit and I've only logged 20k miles on them.
That's with 80% highway driving, no tracking ( except for a single event ), even hard cornering is extremely rare, so was hoping to get at least 30k or more out of these..<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dan, 20k miles from a top of the line performance street tire is very good tread life. I also remember your fronts still having plenty of tread because I was surprised that your rears wore out so much sooner and asked about your alignment settings. Now that the 968 is no longer your dd, 20k miles could last you 3-5 years! The AD08 or RE11's would only wear out faster but w/ incredible grip being the trade-off...

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[ds968]

Well, if 20k is about right ( for the rears anyway ) I don't feel so bad. The middle section wore out at a faster rate so I'll probably keep the new tires below 30psi cold ( may be at 28 or 29 ) because it's obvious at 33+ they're way overinflated

As for the new ones, the only downside I can see is the obscurity of the brand ( no one carries it and I checked with all the major tire chains as well as a few other tire stores in the area and not one of them can even order this brand from their distributors - WTF ? - they can only be purchased online )

So if I have an unrepairable flat while I'm somewhere not that close to home, I have to carry the damn spare in the trunk, which I really really do not want to do. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mad.gif[/img]

Then I have to wait several days for delivery, assuming they have the size in stock, and assuming they'll still make that size when the flat happens if it's a couple of years from now, and assuming this brand will still be availble in the US. Not a concern with A PS2 or a AD 08 or RE11 whcih I can have overnight from just about any tire place.. Damn, nothing's easy. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dry.gif[/img]

Oh, and might I mention that all the places I called so far quoted me from a lowest $ 140 to around $ 200 to mount and balance the 4 tires ?! That's a double WTF !?

And in my best Andy Rooney voice ; Why is it that you have to balance brand new tires ? No, seriously.. why ?

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[flash]

actually 33 cold is low on a street tire, but not horrible

there are more factors at work on tire inflation and how it relates to tread wear than you might think

yes, road speed which translates to heat - this can cause the ballooning you are thinking about - higher speeds means more heat

tire thickness - as the tires lose rubber, they balloon more easily, and are more subject to heat - inflation then needs to be dropped to compensate

fresh tires will need more air - you may find that you need to go right back up to 36

also, at 33, you may actually be compressing the inner sidewall to the point where the tire is running on the center, wearing it out

too much toe will tear up the middle of the tire too

balancing - not only do you need to balance them, but you may even need to road force balance them - the faster you want to drive, the more critical the balance

that being said, try Just Tires - should be cheaper to mount and balance

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[xrad]

at most, it should be about 20$ a tire mount and balance....that includes stems in some shops

make sure the shop has the right sticky weights and that there is someone there who knows what they are doing and will take care of your rims

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[ds968]

<!--quoteo(post=67550:date=Feb 21 2009, 05:31 PM:name=xrad)-->QUOTE (xrad @ Feb 21 2009, 05:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->at most, it should be about 20$ a tire mount and balance....that includes stems in some shops
make sure the shop has the right sticky weights and that there is someone there who knows what they are doing and will take care of your rims<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

"should" is the operating word . even the tire rack or other online tire places which list local installers reflect their prices at about $ 20, but when I called those places they said the info is outdated, and even that was really for size 15 wheels ( who TF drives with 15s nowadays ?! ) but the bigger the wheel and the tire, the bigger the price for the job.. HUH ? They use the same machine, the same process which takes the exact same amount of time, the same weights, what a friggin' rip off I did not even tell them it's a Porsche, that by itself may add another $ 50. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dry.gif[/img]

i swear these folks have been walking around with a bucket over their heads , with the economy the way it is, you'd think they'd do it for half price just to get the business. on the other hand, it's one of those things you can't do without unless you have a balancing machine in your garage, so they have business no matter what the economy conditions are and take full advantage of it.

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[Mark]

Manufacturer has been around for a long time just not big in the US. Sessanta has been out for a couple of years ( the 5th or 6th tire designed by Guigaro ) and is pretty popular with some of the 'vette guys, audi and 350z guys in the US. It has done well in a lot of comparisons. Non directional so you can rotate side to side.


968 driver in the UK rates them well
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Vredeste...essanta.htm#818

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