[Cloud9...68]

[quote name='flash' post='41220' date='Sep 14 2007, 08:13 PM']top secret project[/quote]



Aw, now you're just egging us on... <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/unsure.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/mad.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/biggrin.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> (wide range of emotions here...)

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[saxman]

[quote name='Cloud9...68' post='41217' date='Sep 14 2007, 05:58 PM']So I wonder what Pete has up his sleeve (see his post from 7/31)...



Doing this mod correctly sounds extremely difficult and complex. To get the headlights flush with the fenders, like Arktech did, you'd pretty much have to do the fenders in fiberglass or carbon fiber. But then you'd have to reinforce the front end to make up for the lost rigidity, which adds a great deal of complexity to the design, not to mention the installation. I don't see how this mod could be done for less than $10K, when you add up the cost of the creation of the mold, the fabrication of the fenders, the required reinforcements, the 993 headlights, the cost of painting, and finally the installation. And with the need to reinforce the fenders, would there really be that much weight savings?



I love the look of the fixed headlights (when they're done right, using 993 lights without sticking up above the fenders), as I've always thought the 968's pop-ups look dorky, and make an otherwise beautiful car look dated, but I just don't see how there could ever be a market for this conversion, given its likely cost.[/quote]

there's a much easier(and cheaper) option to all this...





have a plastics manufacture make a new, clear headlight lens, and do a projector retrofit to the current headlights. You could fix them in place, and remove some of headlight mechanisms.



No need for messing with any of the body work, etc.



The most difficult part out of all of this would be having a lens made... which is plenty possible.

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[Cloud9...68]

[quote name='saxman' post='41225' date='Sep 14 2007, 08:52 PM']there's a much easier(and cheaper) option to all this...

have a plastics manufacture make a new, clear headlight lens, and do a projector retrofit to the current headlights. You could fix them in place, and remove some of headlight mechanisms.



No need for messing with any of the body work, etc.



The most difficult part out of all of this would be having a lens made... which is plenty possible.[/quote]



This sounds like it could be feasible, but it would only accomplish part of, at least in my mind, the purpose here. It's not just the strange, dated look of the lights when they're in the up position that I'm not wild about, it's the weird way the lights lay flat on their "backs" when in the normal down position. Yes, I realize other classic designs like the Lamborghini Miura have the same look, I'd just prefer a more normal, upright look to my headlights. Integration of the 993's lights in a modified fender, the way Arktech did it, gives a very stunning, belongs-in-the-Porshce-family appearance.



I don't want to give the impression that I hate the look of the stock headlights, as they've kind of grown on me over the years, but if hypothetically there existed an option of a 993-style look when the car was new, I would have opted for that over the pop-ups in a heartbeat.

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[waikiki968]

Does anyone think it might be possible to entice a fabricator to come up with a workable solution if there was enough (monetary) interest? 968 owners are extremely passionate about our cars, and it seems to me that if we came up with the right amount of money and the right design somebody might be interested. I'd put a some bucks towards a fixed solution.

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[saxman]

[quote name='Cloud9...68' post='41234' date='Sep 14 2007, 08:56 PM']This sounds like it could be feasible, but it would only accomplish part of, at least in my mind, the purpose here. It's not just the strange, dated look of the lights when they're in the up position that I'm not wild about, it's the weird way the lights lay flat on their "backs" when in the normal down position. Yes, I realize other classic designs like the Lamborghini Miura have the same look, I'd just prefer a more normal, upright look to my headlights. Integration of the 993's lights in a modified fender, the way Arktech did it, gives a very stunning, belongs-in-the-Porshce-family appearance.



I don't want to give the impression that I hate the look of the stock headlights, as they've kind of grown on me over the years, but if hypothetically there existed an option of a 993-style look when the car was new, I would have opted for that over the pop-ups in a heartbeat.[/quote]

I think you could really fix that "laid back" look of the lights with a proper projector retrofit...



the lights look excessively laid back, because they are. By setting up the insides of the lights so that they look like they're oriented correctly with the lights in the "down" position would go a long way to making them look just fine.



Right now, if you look at the lights, they look like they're aimed to the sky.



Take a look at photos of some of the fixed headlight conversions done on some of the track cars. While not the most elegant solution, with the insides mounted properly, do they look too far laid back to you?





waikiki... I really doubt that a fabricator could be convinced to come up with a solution on any sort of decent production size. This is more of a job for one of us to make something that works and looks good, and is easily reproduced.

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[Cloud9...68]

[quote name='saxman' post='41237' date='Sep 15 2007, 12:09 AM']Take a look at photos of some of the fixed headlight conversions done on some of the track cars. While not the most elegant solution...[/quote]



The fixed headlight solutions on the race cars that I've seen look highly function, purposeful, and well suited to their application. However, with all due respect, I wouldn't want anything like that on my car. Personally, I just love the look of the 993 Litronic headlights, and having seen Arktech's modified fenders which so elegantly incorporate those beautiful lights onto the 968, I don't think I could live with anything else. So, I guess I'll be sticking with the pop-ups (they DO draw a lot of attention, after all...)



Now, this could all change if Flash and Pete's Secret Project involves the purchase of a stash of 20 pairs of completed fenders from Arktech for pennies on the dollar under the cloak of darkness as the long-defunct company flees from its blood-thirsty creditors...

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[saxman]

I don't really mean the appearance of the track headlights aesthetically. I'm talking about it from purely a position of do they look too far laid back or not.

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[kgain968]

For me Saxman's idea above seems the most realistic, and would be interested in seeing what it would look like. If the new lens and projector setup is more forward looking then upwards looking, that would help with the laid back look.

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[flash]

on this shape, i would have to have an accluded lens so that i could not see the projectors behind - i really can't stand the look of lights stuck in a hole, and then covered by a piece of plastic (except maybe on a Zagati DB4 or a GT-40) - reminds me way too much of the sebring covers on my MGB and similar units i had on the 240Z - very effective aerodynamically, but a royal pain to have to remove them to clean out the dirt that got in there (which ALWAYS happens with that kind of setup)



in my race car i think i am going to graft in 996 lights - i think i am the only one who likes those though - i'm probably all alone in preferring the look of the 996 lights over the 997

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[Anchorman]

I'd be a little less particular. I dislike the popups sufficiently that if I could even do something like this - http://www.truckcustomizers.com/products...29.49.html - behind a clear lens, that would be quite satisfying.



I'd originally found these lights on the Hella site, but couldn't find them again right now.

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[flash]

sure, the lights would work fine - frankly, that part is a no brainer - it's the trim facia into which they would sit that would be the issue



this would have to be a molded piece that would incorporate the mounting of the lights in their necessary orientations, fit into the space provided, match the countours of the opening, somehow attaching to the fender, and be reflective



i think that piece is going to be VERY expensive to develop



then there is the lens cover - beyond the subjective aesthetic issues or two orbs ijn a single round hole, this cover would have to be scratch resistant, weather tight, easily removeable for cleaning, heat resistant, and non-refractive



again, not an easy task



for a street car, i have very real doubts that this will ever come to fruition, and meet the exacting standards that most people have about these things (just look at all the arguments about the 996 lights) - pretty simple for a race car though, as fit and finish, as well as serviceability are not as much of an issue



one of the distictive features of this car is the classic single orb light - even i, who am not a porsche guy, can appreciate that the lights on this car are classic porsche styling - even porsche realized this with the "new" single orb look of the 997, stepping away from the twin light look of the 996 - the last thing i want this car to look like is a japanese import - i am having a real hard time imagining any dual orb setup, in a single round hole, looking any other way



certainly i want to lose the weight, and the complexity of the pop-ups - i'm just really struggling with the feasibility

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[Anchorman]

Again, for me, it's easier. Nothing is going to happen on my car until someone comes up with the "fix" - I have neither the time nor the skills, so I will continue to have the patience.

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[flash]

lol - clearly something i lack

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[Anchorman]

...for which we are all eternally grateful.

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[saxman]

the trim pieces aren't that difficult to make. Yes, it requires some creativity and such, but you'd be amazed what you can do with some chavant clay and some fiberglass if you put your mind to it.



For example, here are some previous projector retrofits I have made. This doesn't even involve any fiberglass work, which could be done to make an even better appearance.











certainly no case of exposed projector parts.



Most projectors are available with a bezel that covers most of the projector anyway.

Hell, something like the M45 projectors have a bezel stock that would fill most of the light. There would be very minimal fabrication needed at all for the trim piece here, assuming the look is what you like.



note that this shot is just the projector sitting in the housing. Absolutely nothing has been fabricated here, it was simply set in place to show how the bezel filled the housing.



While none of these lights are quite the style and such that I would want on my porsche, it's meant to show the possibilities of what can be done even with minimal work. Put in more time, and you would have a much better appearance.



Hell, for those of you that like the 993 lights, there's no reason that the 993 bezel couldn't be cut to fit to hide whatever projector behind it. Although, personally, if I was going through the effort, I'd rather have something a bit more modern in appearance. I like the styling of the insides of the 997 a lot more than the insides of the 993.

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[Anchorman]

Saxman, what has to happen to get you further motivated? Go, man GO!!!

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[flash]

yeah - that's what i am getting at - that entire housing would have to be created from scratch, as would the cover that would fill the hole, which is not the same size and shape as the opening - additionally, there would have to be some way of attaching both items to the car, whether seperately or together

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[saxman]

[quote name='flash' post='41381' date='Sep 18 2007, 04:35 PM']yeah - that's what i am getting at - that entire housing would have to be created from scratch, as would the cover that would fill the hole, which is not the same size and shape as the opening - additionally, there would have to be some way of attaching both items to the car, whether seperately or together[/quote]

There's no need to fabricate a whole new housing. There's a perfectly good one already on the car. This solves a couple difficult issues... making something that fits well, and that attaches to the car. A new lens would have to be fabricated, I'll give you that, but it can be done. Once you have a lens, it's just a matter of mounting the projectors into the stock housing with the proper hardware to make them adjustable and point the correct way, and the trim pieces.



The only difficult part here is making the lens, everything else is just a matter of taking the time to do it, but nothing overly complicated. Making a lens is the only step I haven't done in previous projects.





Anchorman... what's holding me back is time and money. Time more than money. I have nearly all the supplies needed to do this, short of a spare headlight to play with and a good source for the lens.





Anyone good with plastics fabrications?



I suppose I could look into what kind of pourable plastics are available. A two piece mold would be plenty easy to create, and I have a vacuum pump capable of pulling the vacuum needed to degas a two part liquid plastic prior to pouring. Just need to find something that'll be strong enough to be on the front of the a car, be temp resistant enough for use, and be uv resistant(although clear coat can take care of that if needed).

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[Anchorman]

Saxman, if you decide you want to play around, I have a spare headlight that I'd donate to the cause.

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[saxman]

[quote name='Anchorman' post='41383' date='Sep 18 2007, 05:45 PM']Saxman, if you decide you want to play around, I have a spare headlight that I'd donate to the cause.[/quote]

rrealllyy





I actually am in need of a headlight... the driver side one on my car has taken some damage. Would make it a perfect canidate for retrofitting on, as the only damage is to the lens, which would need replaced for this anyway.

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