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I need to replace my clutch...
#81

I've been looking over all the clutch work and I am officially chickening out. Car will go to RS Barn [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif[/img]

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#82

It's not that hard...you just have to be patient. It took me almost month's worth of evenings and weekends. To me it's been very rewarding.
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#83

I'm with you, Ben. It might be different if I had a lift, but to spend that much time on my back...not going to happen. Bless you, Johann.
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#84

But now that Johann has done it once, I bet he could do the whole job, start to finish, in the better part of an afternoon [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif[/img] .

Unfortunately, one inevitably has to go through the type of learning process he's just been through, only to master a job that may not have to do be done again for ten years, by which time most of the time-saving tricks will have been forgotten. Ah, but there's nothing like the satisfaction of the bonding experience with one's 968, right Johann?

I had somewhat of a similar experience with my belt replacement last year. Long story, but it ended up taking much longer than it should have due to some unrelated issues. Would I do it again? Sure, now that I know what's involved.
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#85

I fully understand...I could replace a 968 dashboard much more quickly now than when I did it for the first (and so far, only) time.

However, there are certain jobs I leave to the pros...and a clutch replacement, when needed, will be such a job.
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#86

i wish i had done that - i have now gotten way better at clutches on this car than i ever wanted to
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94 Midnight Metallic Blue Cab Porsche 968 w/deviating cashmere/black interior and WAY too many mods to list - thanks to eric for creating www.968forums.com



"It isn't nearly as expensive to do it right as it is to do it wrong."
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#87

<!--quoteo(post=73670:date=Jun 10 2009, 05:38 PM:name=Anchorman)-->QUOTE (Anchorman @ Jun 10 2009, 05:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->However, there are certain jobs I leave to the pros...<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I hear you. For me, cam timing would fall into that category.
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#88

arrrrgh - doing that one tomorrow
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94 Midnight Metallic Blue Cab Porsche 968 w/deviating cashmere/black interior and WAY too many mods to list - thanks to eric for creating www.968forums.com



"It isn't nearly as expensive to do it right as it is to do it wrong."
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#89

Before I started this clutch job, the last car I really worked on was my 924. That was 15 years ago, so I really felt unsure and uneasy about taking on such a big job. But after calling around for quotes that all hovered around the 4500 euro mark, I figured I should at least try and if I really get stuck or screw things up, I'll call a flatbed and have the car taken to a mechanic. At least I would not be charged labour for taken the car apart [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif[/img]

I think if you have the tools and all the info, you can get this job done over a weekend. The only thing I found hard lying on my back was to get the DMF and the pressure plate back into the car. The rest was quite straight forward.

Where I think it helps when lying on your back is putting the exhaust back. You can rest your elbow on the ground and then align the exhaust quite easily this way; if you had a lift this might not be so easy.

<b>Here’s what I have learned and if I ever have to do this again it will save me a lot of time and frustration:</b>

•Remove the spark Plugs, this will allow you to turn the engine from the back (flywheel side) quite easily. If you don't do this, you have to keep going to the front of the car to crank it and hope you have everything in the right position. If you spin the engine from the back you can turn it until you get to the correct bolt and torque it and then go on to the next bolt. I started by torquing every 3rd bolt and after that every 2n'd bolt
•Mark every torqued bolt with a dab of touch up paint. This way you know what you have torqued. If you have to torque a bolt twice like the flywheel bolts use two colours
•Buy the Arbor Oil seal tool (P234) from SIR Tools. This makes installing the Rear main seal so easy.
•Remove the reference sensor and reinstall it after the flywheel is in. I did not do this, but in future I will.
•Use the Driveshaft to align the flywheel with the crank. If you let the flywheel hang on the pilot bearing you can slide the shaft forward and spin the flywheel until everything lines up. Then you can easily push it into position and put all the bolts in. If you do it this way it will take no longer than 30 minutes to get the flywheel mounted. Do the same when mounting the pressure plate. This should also stop you from damaging the reference mark sensor...ask me how I learned this one [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mad.gif[/img]
•Move the driveshaft as far back as you can before installing the guide sleeve.
•Get the guide sleeve into position and torqued before tightening the pressure plate bolts.
•Once you have started tightening the pressure plate bolts it becomes very hard to get the driveshaft all the way to the front. So after the Guide sleeve is mounted and torqued move the driveshaft all the way forward and then start tightening and torquing the bolts.
•Remove the exhaust tip and hang the rear silencer first, then use a jack to lift the exhaust to the correct height. Then screw the cat to the header. Now putting back all the other bolts are quite easy.


After doing this job I really feel like I know my car so much better, and reading things on this forum are more easliy understood. The down side is that now I know of so many other things that needs cleaning or replacing that my DIY list has grown considerably [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ohmy.gif[/img]
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#90

Hi Johann,

Well done! I feel I was lucky having access to a lift which made moving under the car so much easier. I am surprised about the quotes you got. May be they did not know you can do the work without removing the transaxle like you have to do on a 944? Now the big question: how does the new clutch feel compared to the old one?

gr

Jaap
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#91

At 4,500 Euros, I'd take the same route you took! (or I'd bribe Flash to fly here for a weekend!)
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#92

€4500? I did the clutch (disc, pressure plate and throw out bearing), RMS, pilot bearing, fork sleeve bearings, all for about €800 in parts and labour at my independent a couple of months back, from memory I believe 3 or 4 hours labour.., at the OPC would probably have been about twice that, but not €4500??

I do believe doing work on your car is another way to increase the rewards of ownership, though, so if you have time and facilities (and skills), it's the way to go.
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#93

It might have ended up cheaper than €4500, but all the shops said that's a worst case scenario. All the quotes I got looked something like this:
- Original Porsche parts (DMF, clutch pressure plate etc) . approx €2000...this exluded clutch fork shaft and slave/master cylinder
- Labour was quoted as 24 to 30 hours @ approx €70. The explanation they gave was that it is better to remove the transaxle when doing a flywheel. If you're only doing the pressure plate and clutch the access hole is good enough.

Doing it myself I spent around €2500, but for this money I now have an overhauled clutch....plus a new jack, 3 torque wrenches, Flywheel lock, oil seal installer, New ratchet, sparkplug socket, a set of tripple square sockets, a set of allen head sockets...the list goes on. I spent around €1700 on parts and the rest on tools, but now I have them for my next job.

My motto is...If you don't need a stamp in the service book, do it yourself.

@Jaap

The clutch is so light and smooth...it still smells a bit though. I guess it will go away after driving some more. The whole car feels smoother than before and a lot quiter too. This just proves how bad the old clutch was.

One more thing I noticed. Even though I went against everyone's advice and installed the 964 pressure plate (With blue markings), it is a million times lighter than the 968 pressure plate (With green markings) I took out. I guess age and heat makes the pressure plate very hard.

Oh yes, and there is no vibration [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif[/img]

Thanks for all the advise you guys have given me, espeically Flash, Eric_K and Jaap. This forum and it's people rock [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool.gif[/img]
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#94

<!--quoteo(post=73761:date=Jun 12 2009, 12:01 AM:name=Johannvb)-->QUOTE (Johannvb @ Jun 12 2009, 12:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->... tools, but now I have them for my next job<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Can I bookmark this topic ? [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif[/img]
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#95

<!--quoteo(post=73761:date=Jun 12 2009, 09:01 AM:name=Johannvb)-->QUOTE (Johannvb @ Jun 12 2009, 09:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->One more thing I noticed. Even though I went against everyone's advice and installed the 964 pressure plate (With blue markings), it is a million times lighter than the 968 pressure plate (With green markings) I took out. I guess age and heat makes the pressure plate very hard.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Was this a sachs clutch kit? Although the clutch on my car now feels better I still think it requires more effort than the old clutch. How many of the shims did you install? Maybe I should just visit you one time so we can compare.

gr

Jaap
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#96

Yes, it's the sachs clutch kit and I installed 1 shim, I could not get two on there. My old pressure plate was very warn and where the release bering goes the metal was very thin. I'm not sure if this casued the clutch to be extra heavy. I drive a Nissan Qashqai as a daily driver and I don't think the clutch on the porsche is much heavier now. I'm happy to get together, where do you live?
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#97

They quoted 20+ hours for labor????
Yikes.

I did my 944 in the drive way in like 25 hours.

Did the 968 in it garage in 8 hours.
No lift

It is actually pretty easy to do a 968 clutch.
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#98

<!--quoteo(post=73783:date=Jun 12 2009, 11:54 AM:name=PorscheDude)-->QUOTE (PorscheDude @ Jun 12 2009, 11:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Did the 968 in it garage in 8 hours.
No lift

It is actually pretty easy to do a 968 clutch.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I guess adding the flywheel replacement makes the job exponentially longer and more tedious.

Johann, let me join in congratulating you on your successful completion of this job, and the valuable information you're provided the rest of us.

Regarding the difficulty of getting the new DMF in place, I would imagine this step would be much easier with the lightweight RS Barn flywheel, right?
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#99

I did my DMF as well.
Installing the DMF is not difficult, it's just heavy.

The 25 hours labor quoted is the book time for a 951.
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correct - swapping out the dmf is about an hour extra to a clutch job
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94 Midnight Metallic Blue Cab Porsche 968 w/deviating cashmere/black interior and WAY too many mods to list - thanks to eric for creating www.968forums.com



"It isn't nearly as expensive to do it right as it is to do it wrong."
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