[flash]

i'm actually doing ANOTHER install today. i'll see if i can snap some pics and create illustrations to show what happened to tama's install, and what the right thing to have done would be.

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[rxter]

You installed mine a few weeks ago - would be happy to take some pics if that would be helpful. While hesitant to step into the fray I can't resist - the temptation is too great.....



cerebrum?



we ain't got no cerebrums..



we don't need no cerebrums..



I don't have to show you any stinking cerebrums.... <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/wink.png" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[Rap]

Today at a driving clinic, my instructor who owns two 968's with one being stripped and modded for the track, said "I wish I had this". Boy my car can't do this. I can't believe this! Heavy interrogation as to it and it managed to attract a lot of attention. Not me! The sc!! Lol

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[flash]

did dan's install today. started at 7. by noon i was left with only the MAF wiring, 3 hoses, and fluids. then bill showed up. dilly dallied around, went out to lunch, and to the hardware store, showed bill the ins and outs of the hoses and such, and was still done by 3:30.



i'll post a pic tomorrow, but plenty of clearance everywhere. no issues with fitment -- again.

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[flash]

as promised, a couple of shots of the install of dan's car showing the clearance between the filter and sheet metal, and the proper hose orientation. it did not fight me at all, and took only a few minutes to get right. the key is the leg length of the 3" elbow hose. too long and things go wonky.



as anybody who has wrenched on a car much will know, hoses form to shape from the heat and such. the secondary clamps are only there while that happens. the kinking wasn't bad, and it will go away in a short while.



   

   

   

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[rxter]

Welcome to the go fast club Dan. I was looking forward to passing you on the Toll road, but alas...

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[ds968]

[quote name='rxter' timestamp='1366737409' post='141821']Welcome to the go fast club Dan. I was looking forward to passing you on the Toll road, but alas...[/quote]



The SC is pure BS ! Drove home today with it and took on some lame looking Japanese car , a Nissan GTR , who outran me ! I thought I might have short-shifted once or twice, so I figured that was a fluke, but sure enough a few hundred miles later a Viper also managed to get the better of my new SC'd 968 ! That''t it, I'm returning the kit tomorrow . ;-)

That aside, loved the 500 mile return trip - purrs like a cat, runs like a cheetah with a rocket strapped to its back, keeps as cool as the NA engine did, so niiiiiiice ! I can get used to this :-) ( already did )

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[tamathumper]

Aside from the tangent into other cars, as I've been reminded recently let's stay on topic and bring this thread back to my installation, and my experience.



First let me say the supercharger continues to run fantastically, and my car runs like a raped ape once it's warmed up. I still have a heavy "bog" at 2,000 RPMs when cold though. My vacuum hoses and connectors are original, and it is safe to assume there are leaks, but I haven't quite had time to find them. Even when warm, I can let the car idle and push hard on the accelerator and the car really stumbles before revving hard to 5000 or so, and then when I let off the gas it drops to 3,000 RPMs, hesitates there momentarily, and then drops smoothly to idle. Aside from that, it runs absolutely great.



With that being said, everything on the driver's side of the car is fantastic. Engineered well, machined well, and amazing. On the other side, I did a bunch of detailing tonight, and it's clear the intake shroud is an unfortunate fit on my car. On the far left (passenger) side, it's pushed down by the hood (which is extra "thick" along its edge due to the support members built into it), and that presses that intake shroud both down on the left and upward on the right, because it "pivots" on the single screw that holds it at the radiator. The whole shroud rocks back and forth, and only having mine to go by I don't know if this is normal.



This results in wear and damage in several places. First and foremost, it has caused two "bumps" in my otherwise pristine hood which will now have to be PDR-treated. Secondarily, it has caused wear and "gouging" of the intake shroud itself against the radiator mount screw, and wear of the screw-hole that is supposed to hold that intake shroud in place. The intake shroud "rocks" back and forth because that hole is too high on the mounting tab, and I've at least temporarily improved things by filing that hole higher into the flange to allow the whole shroud to sit lower along the top of the radiator, and bending it back so as not to be struck by the hood when it comes down. It doesn't seal as well, but it also hopefully doesn't press up into the center of my hood.



Before the fur starts flying, I would add that flash and I had a phone call shortly after my installation which indicated this part does not fit the same way on my car as it does on his, because the down-angle of that shroud on his car supposedly follows the radiator shield perfectly, but on mine it's not even close, and there was up to a 3/4" gap at the bottom for mine.



I offer this not as criticism for the product, but as a forewarning for those of you who have installed it - check your intake shroud and make sure it does not "rock" back and forth on that single screw - and make doubly sure your hood does not push down on it on the passenger side which will raise it up in the center of your hood and potentially cause double "bumps" just aft of your badge.



Let the flaming begin.

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[Lear35A]

How about some more pictures.

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[DaveN]

FWIW I am to have a shroud that does tend to be rocky on that single screw. It seems to cause no issues but I have had to beef up the screw going into the rad area. I think all of our hand made cars tend to show when we add an engineered product to anything outside the engine. IMHO

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[tamathumper]

Lear, yes I'll post pics soon, thanks.



And good to know, thank you DaveN, and I think you're right, there's just a combination of tolerances that have combined to make that part not fit quite so well on this one car. It's not a big deal, as it's not an expensive part - and I've somewhat ungracefully dealt with it by bending and filing it into shape. Most importantly, all the expensive bits are performing great. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/wink.png" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[tamathumper]

As promised, pictures and hopefully an explanation of what is different about my installation. I'm trying to keep the pictures small, and at the same time depict the three-dimensional movement that was occurring under the hood. Most of the problem comes down to one little hole that was off by no more than 3/16", but because of the distances involved, that added up to 3/4" or more of displacement.



It's almost impossible to photograph a "ding", especially one that comes "out" as opposed to going "in". Here's an attempt to show the two new dents in the hood. Thankfully, they *are* hard to photograph. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/wink.png" class="smilie" alt="" />







Secondly, for context, here is the intake shroud I will be describing.







You will note the intake shroud stands above the bracket normally used for the front engine cover (A). This is important, as the hood has thick support structures along its edges, and that structure presses down on the intake shroud at position A when the hood is closed. My hood would no longer close on its own and I had to press down gently on the leading edge to get it to latch - something I should not have done as I caused the dimples (I don't blame the intake shroud).



Now here is the tricky part. The intake shroud is mounted with a single screw in the back, at position B, and that hole is a bit too high, which makes it possible for the intake shroud to "rock" on that pivot point, because it doesn't sit low and flush against the radiator. The hole is closer to the left edge of the shroud as depicted, and therefore pressing down at A causes a greater lift at position C, in the center of the engine bay. Think of a see-saw that's not centered to get what I mean. The deformation presses down and forward, causing the intake shroud to rub against the radiator mount, making an arc-like wear pattern on the intake shroud, as well.



Here is my attempt to get a picture of how much lift occurs at the center - I stuck a piece of supercharger hose and my fingers in the gap, as it did not photograph otherwise. This gap was created each time the hood was closed, and it would lift and push the K&N and <acronym title='mass air flow'>MAF</acronym> forward.







Here is a close-up of the wear pattern on the intake shroud.







Here is a picture of the single mount hole on the intake shroud. The yellow circle is approximately the original hole. The wear and deformation below the hole were caused by the deformation and "rocking" motion when the hood closed, and the filing above the hole was my crude fix to allow the intake shroud to sit low and flush to the radiator.





I also committed additional blasphemy and cut a notch into the shroud which allows the hood to seat fully without pushing down at position A. With this notch in place, there is no longer any uplift on the far end of the shroud (<img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/cool.png" class="smilie" alt="" />, and it fits perfectly.







And lastly, here is a picture of the blasphemy itself.

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[tamathumper]

You'll note there's plenty of room for the K&N filter now, and my hoses are uncrimped. The secret at the other end of the engine bay was to remove about 3/4" of silicone from *both* ends of the large elbow, effectively pulling everything back and up, giving quite a bit more room for hose routing. But without the additional trimming on the face of the shroud, it still would have deflected everything even further forward.



There has to be something different about my radiator, perhaps it's a little taller and/or thinner? I recall having to work pretty hard to get the upper shield installed but I figured it was just part of the deal. Anyway, with these few tweaks I am very happy with that part of things, and now I want to focus on that hard stumble at low RPMs, which is very frustrating.



In closing, I *don't* mean to be critical of this product in any way, it works and works great. If you don't have one, go buy one. Seriously, I drove around with a grin on my face all day yesterday, and I'm taking it to a car show today.



I *do* mean to be honest and candid about my installation (and all things) and I appreciate the support I've received through messages and calls. If your own installation was different, I'd love to know how, as part of knowing that everything's done "right" is by seeing other people's cars, which happens approximately zero times per year in this part of the country.

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[Rap]

It's amazing the differences that hand made seems to have wrought in our cars. Maybe we should start an sc club or sub group. Dan you could be commander in chief!

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[flash]

i think your problem is in the radiator mounting. it is probably sitting too high. if i had to guess, you didn't seat the lower rubber bumpers right, or you have the wrong ones (or swelled ones) in there, or you aren't pushing down enough on the radiator, or there is something wrong in the lower tray assembly. assuming you have the right radiator, there is no reason that this should not all go together perfectly.



the problem is not the parts. the problem is either the car, or the installation. the solution was not to hack up the parts. it was to identify and cure the real problem.



again, i think this goes to the difference between knowing how things fit and why, and not. that only comes from having designed this, and done a lot of installations.



as for the dings, i can't see how anything under there would cause those where the circles are. they look to be almost dead center, and there is nothing there but the charge pipe, which if installed correctly, should be a good inch away from the hood. the airbox should also be about 1/2" away from the hood everywhere but the outermost edge where the weatherstrip should just compress about halfway.



as i said before though. i will bring the parts, and make them fit properly. i know they will fit. it just takes the correct installation.

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[ds968]

Initially we thought my radiator was sitting about 3/4 " taller than it should have been, and thought it would not move down but somehow after tightening a few things and further wiggling it in , it worked itself in the right place . Not saying that your car's tolerances might not ne different, it's not unusual for these hand made aseembies to have differences of full inches or more in some places, just conveying my instalattion's radiator experience.

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[flash]

it always does require some fiddling. that assembly is not quite a simple as it looks. things have to sit in there just right. yours was a good example of having to manipulate things to get it in there and fit properly. i suspect that is exactly the kind of thing going on with tama's install.



the engine bay location tolerances are actually pretty tight. this is for the obvious reasons of interference issues. i have not yet found much variance there. i have found it elsewhere, and sometimes quite a bit, but so far, not in the engine bay.

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[tamathumper]

Is it possible to tell the height of the radiator from a close-up of the upper mounting bracket? Here is how much "adjuster" is exposed on mine, e.g the length of the screw above the bracket. Can anyone else compare by this?

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[Lear35A]

Looks like about three to 3 1/2 exposed threads on mine.

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[flash]

the immediate difference i see is that tama's bracket looks like it's pushed upward and yours is level or downward. so, i would say that his radiator sits a good 1/4" taller.

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