[flash]

sometimes you really have to fiddle with them to find places where they won't do that. it can be a complicated "rotate this one here, and move that one there" process. they can go where they won't kink though. i've done it on every installation so far.

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[Lear35A]

I made improvements with a lot of tweaking, but still have minor kinking. Since a drive to the west coast to get this solved is unlikely, let me ask this. Is there any reason not to find the proper ID hose with a smaller wall thickness? That would allow tighter bends without kinking. From the current hose markings it seems we have 300psi hose. That seems gross overkill to handle 5psi blow off.

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[flash]

yes there is a reason. i have not found any other hose that can stand up to fuel vapor.



frankly, all you need to do is adjust the length. i have never had a problem preventing kinking. lay the hose in place UNCONNECTED and then trim to fit. it's really very simple. i don't understand the problem that some have seemed to have. if you have a continued problem, then heat the hose with a heat gun, lay it straight, then do it again and lay it in the location you want and let it cool to form. this isn't rocket science. it's only a hose.



i think the largest problem is in the orientation of the 3" hose. get that and the elbow right, and the rest falls into place. the small hose is on the bottom. the medium hose is in the middle. the large hose is on the top.

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[Rap]

Although I have driven my 968 since the sc installation on the highway( cool) and at an Autocross (never got out of second gear), this weekend I will be at Limerock for a one day DE. Sort of looking forward to this!

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[tamathumper]

All three hoses were OK but have some level of kink in them now, so I'll have to continue to frig with them. I think there should be some kind of street elbow or at least a spring or plastic bend-aid on the front and rear (big) ones. I have adjusted them numerous times and they continue to kink, so even if there is some magical combination of adjustments that will leave them kink-free, finding it is turning out to be a bit of a PITA.



The car continues to run great above 3K RPM, but this morning it had a bit of a "hitch in it's git-along" below 2K, a kind of pause-stumble when coming onto the throttle.

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[flash]

probably the ICV hose.



as for adjusting them, it can be counter-intuitive. what you think might create more room, actually makes less. if i had a clean pic of the area, i could probably suggest what to do.

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[tamathumper]

Will do.



In the meantime, some more pics to help future installers - when I said my oil reservoir for the supercharger was wet on the top, here's what I meant. I wiped it down good and retorqued the banjo bolt, and although some of it is back, I don't believe it's quite this wet anymore.







And lastly, I'm not sure how much of this bend was in the fuel regulator originally, but I wonder if it had something to do with my problem getting the new one to seat correctly?

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[flash]

lol - yeah - that would cause the thing to be cock-eyed. it looks like somebody used one bolt to pull the regulator into the fuel rail, rather than tightening a little on each one, a bit at a time, going back and forth from one to the other, like you should do with everything.

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[tamathumper]

I was wondering if that would do it, but curiously, the tab is wonked *sideways* from the axis of the bolts. And it stayed that way even though it was on the car for a really, really long time? I wonder if I could have done it removing it, but I don't recall having a hard time getting the fuel regulator off - but as bad as the o-rings were married to the head on the injectors, it's possible. The tabs are pretty soft, as it turns out.

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[tamathumper]

A number of observations today, and pictures.



I had a large (and worsening) stumble at 2K RPMs when cold, so I went out today to fiddle with the hoses and test vacuum. As I re-arranged things, the hose for the ICV came loose at the barb fitting. Apparently the old hose is expanded and the barb fitting does not make a great seal. So hose clamps went on both ends of that just to be safe. A test drive showed some improvement.







I also re-arranged the hoses to avoid kinks, and had to do over an hour of modification at the front of the engine bay for several reasons. First, I have never been happy with the bend in the hoses, and second, the K&N never fit right and rubbed on the inside of the engine bay, destroying a brand new K&N sock. @!#$







I pushed the big silicone elbow further onto the supercharger and that created about 1/2" more room. Likewise, there was no avoiding trimming about 3/4" off the front rounded part of the intake shield, as that thing has never fit right and simply would not allow the intake hose to run straight. But given the variability of the height of the radiator (it is on rubber mounts, after all) and the multiple angles required in that part, it's not surprising that each car's idiosyncrasies might add up and require a little bit of tweaking there. A little bit of tin snipping and some filing to round the edges and it fits quite nicely now, with no real loss of function. Thank goodness, because that thing has caused me some real swearing.







Lastly, I went to two auto stores and tried to find hose springs for all of the hoses that tend to kink. They are 5/8" (Raptor), 3/4" (Gates) and 1" (Gates) hoses. Please note that the 5/8" Gates hose spring will *not* fit on the Raptor hose, as the hose is a little too big. I did get the spring on the ICV hose and took a test drive and everything seemed OK, so I'll leave it on there and see how it goes. I'm picking up a 1" hose spring this afternoon as they had none in stock but are getting one from the warehouse.







I took another test drive, but the car was already warmed up, so I'll have to wait until it's cold again to really see if the stumble is gone.



Oh, and I noticed the supercharger belt is making a black stripe on the underside of my hood. Poop.

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[banditsc]

Your going to see some belt dust as it wears in, also make sure it's not to tight.

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[tamathumper]

It's actually a bit loose and due for it's first tensioning, I think. When idling with the hood open, I think I heard the "ting" sound and I could see the belt fluttering just a little bit under the guard.

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[flash]

it really bothers me that you had to trim anything. i can see from the 3" elbow and 3" bent hose that things are not pointed in the right direction. that is where the problem originates. you have it clocked toward the passenger side. had you have clocked that more toward the driver side, pointing dead straight forward, you would not have had the clearance problems at the air cleaner. it would also have helped on the kinking of the other hoses. you would have been able to push those back farther into the engine bay, working the hose farther around, which would have alleviated some of the kinking. it's backwards of what you would think to do. you want to get the elbow CLOSER to the headlight release, not farther away. you created the problem by not having the 3" assembly correct.



as for the ICV hose, while a clamp will probably solve your problem, it should have been very tight. in fact, it should have been very difficult to get the barbed fitting all the way in there. your ICV hose is now suspect, and i would be looking carefully at it for signs of other issues.



it sounds like you have gotten it to stop bugging you, but this is exactly the kind of deviation that i was hoping did not happen. i wish i were there. in 5 minutes i could have tweaked things into place where they belong. but that's the result of having done a few of these, as well as being the one who worked it out in the first place. it's hard to tell somebody some of the things i learned to do on this.



re: belt dust. once the belt wears in, it should stop making dust. if it is still making it, then it could actually be too tight. this is a problem, as it will wear out the upper driver side pulley. it should not be as tight as the OEM belt. the belt guard should be kicked upward at about 10 degrees, and pulled all the way to the top of the holes. then, the belt should only be as tight as needed to not have it "ting" against the belt guard when you rev it up. no tighter.

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[tamathumper]

I knew it would bother you, I even thought several times before trimming it and considered calling you, but it was clearly the only way to make everything work and I knew it... I also knew you'd say I was the problem by looking at the photo from the other side of the country.



But if you recall, we've had this discussion several times and I cocked that elbow to the left, straight, and right, but the intake shield would NOT allow the air filter to move into alignment - it was too far forward and the piece that wraps under the air filter just ended up getting bent, or pulling off the air filter, or at one point breaking the grid on my <acronym title='mass air flow'>MAF</acronym> which really ticked me off. But we all know these cars are different and it may fit everyone else's just fine.



In the end, the only solution for the hoses kinking was to push the silicone elbow further onto the supercharger, and at some point I'll trim a bit of it off per the instructions. This moves the metal elbow away from the front bumper and gives the hoses the room they need.



But with the misfit intake shield acting as a fulcrum, the further back the elbow goes, the further *forward* the tip of the K&N moves. So some of it had to be trimmed in any case. Now it all fits quite perfectly, my <acronym title='mass air flow'>MAF</acronym> grid is repaired, and my hoses are, at least today, kink-free.

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[flash]

of course it bothers me, and of course i would say that. i could see it in the pic. i know that every one of these will fit if properly installed. it just takes knowing how the geometry adds up, and ignoring the air filter, and working on the hose. everything else falls into place when you do that. i'm lacking how to adequately communicate that though.



had you have installed it as i am saying, or at least as intended, it would have fit perfectly. the cars are all within a very reasonable tolerance of each other. the parts have plenty of clearance for any of that. the big hose was probably too long. as i said at least once, the hose company failed to cut the legs to the right length on one batch. yours may well have been in that batch. that hose would need to be cut so that it fit properly. only then do you add the other pieces, one at a time, fitting them into place. but, you just have to start with the 3" hose being correct. if that is wrong, everything else is wrong. the real problem here is that i didn't have you measure the hose. the leg length of that is critical. rather than hacking things up, getting that right would have resolved all of your problems.



i understand how this happens, and i wish i could be at every installation so i could show everybody how it works. it does work though, and you just have to think backwards. if i come out there, and i have extra parts (i actually think i do have these), i will bring them and install them and show you. i wanted to show you in paso, but we just never managed to do that. my bad.

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[tamathumper]

Sorry, bob, but you're going to have to accept that on my car, the intake shield was not a fit. And I am being as kind as I can in describing it that way. No amount of cutting the elbow would solve the problem and in fact would make it worse for the reasons I outlined above. See "fulcrum".



I rechecked, and I actually *did* trim the silicone elbow when I did the first part of the install, and it did not help. It created a bit more room for the hoses, but exacerbated the mis-alignment caused by the intake shield. In my hi-res photo you might note the deflection in the straight portion near the <acronym title='mass air flow'>MAF</acronym> caused by the intake shield being too far forward. I reversed the elbow and as I said, trimmed (not hacked) the misfit intake shield, and all is good. Perfect alignment, and a fit like I expected. Sorry if you don't like it, but those are the facts.



I understand if you want to defend your product, but I'm not "calling you out" on a bad design or even a malfunction. I'm just documenting my experience and unfortunately I had to trim one of the parts to make it fit my car. I don't take lightly to the "You're part of the problem" comments, though. I have an IQ of 162. I qualified for Mensa at age 3. I skipped a couple grades and graduated high school at age 15. I'm not an idiot. Something that is "counter-intuitive" is still well within my grasp.



No, I'm not an engineer, and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. But I build CNC machines in my basement and I sure as hell know when something doesn't fit, and why.

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[flash]

sorry, but i won't accept that. i know they are all the same. i can prove it when i'm out there. i know what the problem is. i can see it in your photos. i do have the spares. i will be out there for the virginia event. i'll bring them with me. in about 5 minutes i'll have you set straight.



i'm not calling you an idiot. i know you're not. but, i know the stuff fits, and i know why some people have issues, and how to fix it. i just can't figure out how to explain it so that somebody would immediately understand. it's too 3 dimensional.



i realize that you don't think you did anything wrong, and that you think the parts don't fit, but i will be happy to prove they do, at no charge to you for the new parts. that's how confident i am.



just for the record, i too qualified for mensa very young (it was 5 though - they wouldn't test any younger than that back then). abstract 174 and mechanical considerably higher (mensa full tests rate both). at the time there were only a handful of people they had recorded higher. i also skipped a grade, graduated high school at 16, but with a 2 year degree already under my belt (i attended community college at the same time as high school), and entered college on a full ride engineering scholarship as a junior, having tested through my first 2 years. so, no village idiot here either.

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[tamathumper]

Now that we've compared cerebral dick lengths, let's see who's stupid enough to need the last word.

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[TheDude]

[color="#000000"]Being a patent attorney, I know how difficult it can be to explain something in writing even with help of diagrams. [/color]



[color="#000000"]Flash, it would certainly help if you would post a video ("youtube") of how to best install the plumbing and what to look out for.[/color]



[color="#000000"]MN[/color]

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[flash]

lol - i knew you were going to go there, on all counts. of course i'l have the last word on this. it's not a matter of need or stupidity though, and i really don't appreciate you trying to tell me something about my design that i know you to be wrong about. you're going to have to accept that there is somebody smarter about this, and that i know why you are having a problem, and that i can fix it. when i prove that it fits fine if done correctly, i expect an apology. i am absolutely certain that if the big hose was the right length, and it was pointed dead ahead, and not toward the passenger side, everything would have fit.



i will probably have to be doing something in the way of better instruction. i know for certain that it will work correctly in every car, if done the way i do it. most of the kits are now installed though, and if i'm not making any more, it seems moot.



what i have bumped into though is people who think they know better. they don't, no matter how bright they are. they lack the benefit of having spent a lot of time fiddling with this stuff, and looking at it with a clean slate. you wouldn't believe the number of things i've seen people do or try to do. some people just shouldn't be doing this install. these are the ones who run hoses in the wrong places, don't zip tie things as directed, do things out of order, rearrange things to places they shouldn't be, and generally don't think in 3D so they don't see what moving something in one direction on one part does to other directions on other parts. other than hoses, no part should need any modification. tolerances are designed in to fit every car. you just have to know which part to adjust, and it's often not the one you think it should be.



on the other hand, there have been some very good installs too. in the end, it comes down to the mechanic.

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