[coloradocab]

So, it's time to replace the Pagids that have served me well on my coupe. The car is used for roughly 4 autocrosses, and 8-10 track days a year, and is driven pretty much daily. I'm looking for recommendations for pads that wear well given this usage, don't make a racket on the street, don't fade, shed a minimum of dust, and work okay when they're cold. I realize that some of these criteria may be mutually exclusive, but that's my wish list!



The Pagids were excellent in terms of behavior on the track, longevity, and didn't squeak, but the dust and cold performance were suboptimal.



Any recommendations would be appreciated!

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[RPM]

I am very happy with my PBR Deluxes for street use. No squeaks and no dust!



They have not faded in heavy use during a few PCA drives but I have no track experience with them yet.

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[vnarma]

Which Pagid's are you currently using? The Pagid Yellow are considered the best compromised for Street/DE usage. It doesn't get better. I'm using the KFP Golds, which are fine on the street/DE/Autocross from a performance standpoint, but are noisy and dusty. The good thing, is the dust is easy to clean, unlike some brands. The various "metal masters" I've found okay (Not great) for Street/Autocross, but out of there element at a DE/Track event. Fast/Quiet/Clean, pick any two. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[ds968]

can't speak for track use, but for the street I completely agree with Ralph's post on PBR Deluxe pads



Totally silent, NO dust at all , and after 40,000 + mi on them I have more than 70% pad left. Mind you, this

is not at the expense of the rotors, which are are still like new ( no discernable "lip" ) and their surface is as smooth as Pamela Anderson's ...oops... I meant to say as smooth as shaving cream. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/tongue.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />



But my driving is 80% highway, so your mileage may vary <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/blink.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />



Yes, IMHO this is the holy grail of brake pads. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/cool.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[flash]

i believe dan is referring to the the pbr ceramic pad - the deluxe pad is what i have on the bmw, and i will not be buying them again - easy to fade, only fair on dust - uneven deposits on the cross-drilled zimmermans - i was a big pbr fan up until then, having used the metalmasters on a number of cars



on my 968 i have the porterfield 4S carbon/kevlar - less dust than oem (what is there is red and easy to clean off) - no cold stop issues - no fade yet on any track day i've had them out



i will be trying to find this pad for ALL of my cars

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[ds968]

yes, I have the ceramic pad - hmm, I thought the "deluxe" was the ceramic compound pad of the PBR line.. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/huh.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> .. but based on Bob's post I guess that's not the one, so sorry for the mislead ..

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[coloradocab]

[quote name='ds968' post='37432' date='Jun 25 2007, 03:56 PM']yes, I have the ceramic pad - hmm, I thought the "deluxe" was the ceramic compound pad of the PBR line.. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/huh.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> .. but based on Bob's post I guess that's not the one, so sorry for the mislead ..[/quote]

Anyone out there have experience with regular track use of these pads? They sound good, but I'd feel better knowing they hold up okay to that kind of use and resist fade over multi-lap sessions.

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[bob blackwell]

Chris I am still a strong advocate of the PBR (formerly Axxis, formerly Repco) Metalmaster pads. They meet all of the requirements on your "wish list" and are inexpensive to boot. A couple of other satisfied users that you may know are: Russ Kelso, Roadrunner Region and Bill Walker, Carrera Region. Good luck, Bob Blackwell.

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[flash]

other than that "first cold stop of the day" the only negative thing i have seen from the metalmasters on a 968 is the tendency to tear through zimmerman crossdrilled disks - not a bad pad - cheap and predictable, though not as good of a stop as the porterfield



i used to use them on everything - no dust - lasted forever - stoped great (made occasional squeaking nosies though)they sucked on the E30 though - the car was too heavy and the brakes too small - it took a while for them to warm up, and when they did, they tore up my brembo rotors, and never would bed down right on the zimmermans



the deluxe pads are on the E46, and i won't buy those again for anything

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[Dave]

Metalmasters are about the mildest option, but you'd better get good at changing pads on-site at the track. Eventually, you will need to change the fronts within a single track day. It can actually be practical if you are both careful and quick.



KFP Golds were nice, tolerate heat a bit more, lasted about 2-3x the Metalmasters. But, eventually you may experience cracking/chunking of the pad material. That, and they will still squeal quite a bit around town.



Pagid (I speak for Black) can be VERY durable track pads. But, even I am getting embarrassed squealing to a stop everywhere in these things, and I have a VERY high tolerance for driving a fairly obnoxious track set-up on the street. (For example, the wife refuses to go out for ice cream in this car any more).



You COULD swap pads out for track days. You do a fair number and drive the car everywhere, very similar to what I've done with both my 944 and 968. It is a pain in the butt, but may fit into your prep ritual.



The big downside is that the rotors will have to exchange pad material back and forth, which is not necessarily good for rotors and will create some transitional braking anomalies. They kinda prefer having one material on them for stable behavior.



Perhaps someone else has found a magic pad that tolerates a couple of hot track days in these relatively heavy cars, but won't scare the neighbors every time you pull up into the drive. Otherwise, seeing how far you can get on the Metalmasters may be the best bet.

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[coloradocab]

Lots of good tips here, but I'm now wondering more than ever if there truly is a holy grail brake pad for the mixed use I give the car.



I did have Metalmasters a while back, but have been much happier with the Pagids on the track. I do like the price of the Metalmasters, though!



I'd love to hear from someone who had used the Porterfields and PBR Ceramics in fairly heavy track use.



The Pagid Yellows sound intriguing...anyone know how noisy they tend to be on the street? I like what I hear about the stopping ability of them, but don't want to sound like an Amtrak at every stoplight.

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[vnarma]

[quote name='coloradocab' post='37510' date='Jun 26 2007, 11:41 PM']Lots of good tips here, but I'm now wondering more than ever if there truly is a holy grail brake pad for the mixed use I give the car.



I did have Metalmasters a while back, but have been much happier with the Pagids on the track. I do like the price of the Metalmasters, though!



I'd love to hear from someone who had used the Porterfields and PBR Ceramics in fairly heavy track use.



The Pagid Yellows sound intriguing...anyone know how noisy they tend to be on the street? I like what I hear about the stopping ability of them, but don't want to sound like an Amtrak at every stoplight.[/quote]



A couple friends of mine use the Pagid Yellows on the street, and love them. I didn't go that route as the entry cost was three times the cost of the KFPs. I can live with the noise for the cost difference.

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[sguy]

Chris, I think your use pattern reflects mine pretty closely. I just finished off a set of Porterfield R4-1 pads. They are called a 'vintage race pad' designed for vintage racing where cool performance is helpful. The pad has a broad high friction range across temperature, and I found it works well on the street, autocross, and on a high braking demand track. It will make dust (they all to, but it cleans ok), they are quiet, and Porterfield pads are all easy on rotors (relatively speaking). The ceramic metalmasters will not hold up on the track on the fronts, but will work OK as a rear pad. I just put on a set of KFP gold pads and I'll see how they compare. The R4-1's are also reasonable in price. ymmv.



Cheers, Stephen

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[vnarma]

Stephen,

Looking forward to your comparison of the Porterfields to the KFPs. I went with the KFP on mine as I knew how they performed from prior Porsches.



I've got three days on Pocono to explore the durability of the KFPs on the 968. I recently put in the Bias Valve, and swapping the brake lines to fresh brake hoses. The braking system should be up for the task.

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[sguy]

Vanio, let us know your impressions of the KFP's on your car, and if you can tell the difference with the bias valve. I have one, but I haven't installed it yet. I don't know when the next time I'll get my car on the track. In two weeks I'm starting my competition license in another car and I'm concentrating on that for now.

Cheers,

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[RS Barn]

The Brake Bias valve is one of the best things you can do for DE Car. Car stops quicker, less dive under braking and more even pad wear. I sell KFP golds and am pretty happy with their performance. They do make lots of dust/smutch that cleans up quite well.

Pete

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[rustech]

I've been using the KFP Golds for a few years now (time for new pads) and I must say that they are absolutely amazing when it comes to stopping for both street and DE. The downsides are that they have done a number on my zimmermans, they are pretty annoying on the street with their squeals, and they throw a crazy amount of dust.

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[vnarma]

Pretty happy with the Bias Valve on the street. Wondering if I have to "relearn" trail-braking on the 968 with the increased rear bias. I've done just three track days with 968 and the KFP, quite happy. On the street, I'm used to the squeal and dust.



I'm going to be instrumenting the combination on the 24th, so I'd be interested to see if I actually get more braking power (more G's), or just better balance, with less fade. I did find the 968, with non-M030 brakes did seem to overwork the front brakes, hence the purchase/installation of the bias valve. I'll post the findings about a week after the event.

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[flash]

i think you are going to be very happy with what you find - i am finding i can brake much later into the turn and get on it sooner, with a lot less weight upset - i haven't had it on the track yet wiht the new valve, but i can already tell it's going to be fun

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[rustech]

I have used the bias valve at the streets of willow and found the braking to be very predictable even with trailbraking. The bias valve definately allows for later braking.

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