[sydneyman2007]

ugh...
when my light switch is off, and i touch the brake pedal, all of the rearward facing tail lights and brake lights come on except for the driver's side inner bulb.
when the lights are on, all of my lights are lighted, including the third brake lamp and the driver's side inner bulb regardless of whether im touching the brakes or not...
so when lights are on, it looks like im riding the brakes and when the lights are off, the brake lights function normally when they are supposed to, with the exception of the driver's side inner bulb... whew...

What ive done so far: ive attacked every ground on my car with the exception of the one on the bellhousing. ive checked the hatch area for all wiring and found no shorts outside of the taped up loom. ive change out brand new bulbs with nothing changing, ive checked and rechecked each fuse and finally took the third brake lamp down to check those grounds. my rear wiper is removed so thats not shorting...

other forums are stumped, im calling on 968forums expertise!

now regarless of what ive done, please second guess my efforts so if any of those seem like likely culprits, i can go back in again...

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[flash]

make sure you have the right bulb in the right hole - verify it against the other side that is working properly

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[sydneyman2007]

hey flash,
actually did that first thing. i swapped the bulb from the corresponding hole on the other side and nothing changed... [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dry.gif[/img]

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[sydneyman2007]

no magic bullets out there? [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif[/img] this is the last issue for my inspection... looks like i might have to rig something up...

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[Darryl]

I can't offer a magic bullet, but I can tell you that the third brake light ground can mess things up as can wrong bulbs in wrong sockets. I had crazy lights similar to what you describe until I found that the third brake light enclosure was all rusted and cracked, not making contact. That is the ground point. I've removed it completely until I can source another one and all my lights now work fine.

I'm guessing by your previous posts, you've double checked all of that. At this point, I'd verify all bulbs are correct regardless of current operation. I'd also check other things such as turn signal operation and hazard operation. Everything was working at one time, correct?? So then, something must've gone belly up to cause these symptoms. Let us know the cure!

- Darryl

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[flash]

after verifying and cleaning the grounds, and then disconnecting the third light to eliminate that as the cause

first i would use a test light to determine that the correct signal is going to the correct wire

then

i would remove both lenses, work from inside the car, and swap things left to right, to eliminate the housing as the cause

point by point - follow the signal path

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[sydneyman2007]

ive done some changing of bulbs but nothing systematic like you describe... doing that tonight. and per Darryl, im taking that off tonight as well. now that i think on it... everything worked fine until i replaced some bad bulbs and decided to clean the contacts... man thanks guys. sometimes it just takes a little outside perspective... [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif[/img]

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[sydneyman2007]

well tried all those things... i also noticed that my front passenger parking light comes on when i press the brake when the light switch is off. also regarless of bulb type, the driver's side inner brake lamp does not come on when i press the brake pedal, but works fine when the light switch is on.

removed the third brake lamp completely (the whole unit from the spaded connector rather than the white plastic clip next to the wiper)and theres no change...

high beams work fine, indicators (both directions , front and rear,) work fine, reverse lights work great, fog lamps won't turn off when low beams are on but go off fine when high beams are selected... another interesting thing... [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mad.gif[/img]

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[flash]

definitely a gremlin in there - you haven't monkeyed with any relays have you?

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[sydneyman2007]

hmm no i haven't... [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dry.gif[/img]

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[flash]

i wasn't suggesting that you do, only wondering if perhaps one got misplaced

but, couldn't hurt to check the control module

i'm still inclined to think it's a grounding thing though

are you saying that the brake light comes on when the lights are on, but not as a brake light? that sounds like you have the wrong bulb in there

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[sydneyman2007]

ok now i have. im assuming its g17+g18 which is one gigantic relay entitled "light combination"... but im "guessing" its good... (ala Robin Hood "men in tights") looks like its an expensive part to just change out...

on a possibly unrelated note, there are receptacles for two relays under the steering wheel and only one has a relay... (the one closer to the firewall) any idea what those are for? this thing is turning into the 968 from hell! ive never had a smidgen of electrical trouble with my older 944s...

thanks again flash, you obviously like to help other people out even though you have your own issues goin on... very appreciative...

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[sydneyman2007]

so to get rid of my own confusing way of describing things, here is whats going on when the car is in the acc position or on.

light switch on with no brake pedal:
<b>front of car-</b>
fog lights come on regarless of switch position but go off when high beams are selected
low beams work fine
parking lights work fine
hazards work fine
parking lights indicate left or right properly
<b>rear of car-</b>
third brake lamp is illuminated
inner brake lamps in left and right housings illuminate
outer lamps illuminate
reverse lights function normally

light switch on with brake pedal
<b>front of car-</b>
normal
<b>rear of car-</b>
inner and outer brake/tail lamps illuminate same as before
third brake lamp illuminates as before

light switch off, no brake pedal:
nothing on as usual

light switch off, brake pedal:
<b>front of car-</b>
passenger side parking lamp illuminates
<b>rear of car-</b>
third brake lamp illuminates
both outer lamps illuminate
passenger side inner lamp illuminates but the driver's side does not

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[flash]

ok - time for a phone call - let's see if we can sort this out - sending you a PM with my number

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[sydneyman2007]

Resolution: Flash is good at this 968 thing.

so for future reference, put double filament bulbs in double filament holes, and put single filament bulbs in single filament holes.

otherwise your car will explode. and every puppy and kitten within a 20 mile radius will also die.
... or at the very least your car will do funny things...

tired rambling over...
but here some useful information:

bulb 7528 in your front parking lights
7528 in your lower outboard tail lamp
7506 in your upper outboard tail lamp
7506 in your upper inboard tail lamp
some other 12v 5w bulb (single filament) in the middle
some 92 model year 968s don't have diagrams of the passenger compartment relays under the cover of the fuse/relay panel under the hood. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dry.gif[/img]
the diagram under the hood instead directs you to the owners manual, page 92. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif[/img]
page 92 directs you to refer to the nonexistent diagram under the relay cover on the fuse/relay panel under the hood. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mad.gif[/img]
i get tired and ramble after midnight.

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[rxter]

Can we pin this, or do we have another pinned thread with bulb #s?

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[rhudeboye]

+1 on the pin.

If not this thread in its entirety, post 13 and 15 is a good resource and easy to follow. Well, at least easier then the Porsche manual.

Way to be there for a member Flash. Man, who doesnt have your phone number now [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif[/img]

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[Darryl]

For other reference info:

P21W are the single filament for tail lights and other "regular" lights
P21/5W are the dual filament for brake lights

I'll have to double check my bulb drawers for some other common types that we can add to this thread.

@Sydney - glad you got it sorted out!

- Darryl

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[flash]

happy to help

i'll make sure there is a bulb chart pinned

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[sydneyman2007]

another side effect of having the wrong bulb is that it draws too much heat. (depending on what bulb)

i couldn't get the driver's side lower, outer bulb plug out of its socket in the housing and had to resort to some extreme measures...

once i did get the plug out, i noticed the hole wasn't completely round... and the bulb was too large to remove!!

broke the base of the bulb to i could remove the socket at least and shattered the bulb while still in the housing and shook it all out.

once i could look inside without the bulb in the way, i noticed that the red plastic was black and melted in some places which warped the hole... sweet

so now i have to find a new housing but in the meantime i need to dremel out a bigger hole so at least the bulb can get in there much less the plug...

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