[Tom in Austin]

Just upgraded to Big Reds a couple of weeks ago, and had an unexpected opportunity to try them out this morning on the way to work. A van decided to pull out right in front of me on Loop 360. I will admit I was traveling just a wee bit more than the 65 mph speed limit at the time ...



OK, now this is subjective, but the Big Reds give a ton of initial response; I didn't get to the anti-lock kicking in, but I must have shaved off about 50 mph in just a couple seconds.



I agree with everyone who has said the standard brakes are superb, and the only difference is fade resistance under racing conditions. But this morning, in a real-world test, I was very glad to have the Big Reds. I say there's no such thing as "too much" brakes.

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[Darth Vadar]

That's my "next" project...in a never ending list!



Where did you get the Adaptors? Or did you not need them? I have non M030 suspension, so my caliper bolts mount horizontally... have to add a bracket in there...



Who had the best price on the Setup? Calipers? Rotors?



All info is appreciated! Glad they worked as you hoped they would!!

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[Tom in Austin]

I got my adapters and rotor hats from Lindsay racing in Oklahoma City. The new bolts come with the adapter (actually both are made by Kokeln, but they do not sell directly to the public). There's a great write up on the mod on this site http://www.944s2.com. Everything is exactly the same as on a 968.



I have gold-anodized hats and I think they look great with the red calipers. The calipers and rotors themselves are pretty regularly available on EBay auctions.



Do go to the M030 brake line solution b/c the inlet on the Big Reds is lower than the standard calipers and there's no proper way to retain the brake hoses otherwise (I know ... I fiddled around way too long trying things before just doing it the right way). When you use the M030 brake line, you'll need two more line retaining clips, DONT buy the ones Porsche says to use, they're a newer design and took thick. Go to a used parts dealer and just pull them off an old 944 so you get the same kind.



And make sure to switch the position of the bleeders to the top of the calipers.



Good luck!

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[Darth Vadar]

Thanks Tom! Just the sort of info I needed!



I wondered why the switch to the M030 Brake Lines... now I know!



More fun work! I can get most of the items brand new at good prices from Sunset, so will probably just buy there... Jeff is super helpful.

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[Jason Judd]

Tom,



Congrat's on your Big Reds...If you would, please consider changing the brake bias valve to Porsche's 33/5 unit.



This has been discussed, and done, by many folk who have switched over to Big Reds up front; myself included.



Best,



Jason

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[Stephenwz968]

Agreed, the bite from big reds without the bias valve is huge since the fronts are doing most of the work, I drove for about 3 weeks with the stock valve and big reds, switched the valve to the 5/33 part, and what a difference! Much more balanced and no more nosedive! I highly recommend it!



Steve

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[rustech]

I highly recommend it for stock brakes as well. It definately flattens and improves the braking.

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[Tom in Austin]

Didn't mention it, but I did do the 5/33 proportioning valve as part of the project. Haven't gotten into the antilock enough to know the difference it makes, but seems great under everything I've tried to date.

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[Anchorman]

Hmmm...Install Big Reds, now there's too much braking power up front so put in the bias valve to move more braking to the rear. Why does this seem contradictory?

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[flash]

not at all - it's all about balance



there is frankly too much front braking for my tastes, even in stock form - the bias valve works wonders - i love the improvement - it does open the door though for rear lockup under the wrong conditions - the front bias of the stock 5/18 keeps drivers a bit safer and accommodates the "nominal" driving condition



with big reds up front only, you would be pretty close to the resultant stock bias by using the 5/33



if i myself were doing big reds up front only, i would probably install a 5/45 - i like the rear brakes to grab hard

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[333pg333]

I've posed this question on Rennlist and I thought I'd do the same here. I am wondering why we all opt for the Big Reds over the Big Blacks? Here is what I've come up with. One, they're Red. Two, they're more expensive so they must be better. Three, they were designed for the 993tt and that carries more street cred than the 928GTS.

The fact is that the blacks were designed for a front engined water cooled car v's a rear engined air cooled car. (Not that the cooling has much to do with it but I like to distinguish between the front and rear brigade) Our cars being front engined should be more suited to the Blacks. The only mechanical difference is that a part of one of the pistons is a bit smaller inside (I think?) but this again should suit our cars possibly more as we don't want to be overbraked and create way too much nose dive when hard on the stoppers. So I am trying to see what the point of the reds are apart from the 3 reasons I've come up with above. The price difference is amazing too. One well known retailer has the Reds at $530 and the Blacks at $370. That's crazy. They take the same pad too. Why buy Reds?

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[Mike in NJ]

[quote name='333pg333' post='30724' date='Feb 8 2007, 02:36 AM']I've posed this question on Rennlist and I thought I'd do the same here. I am wondering why we all opt for the Big Reds over the Big Blacks? Here is what I've come up with. One, they're Red. Two, they're more expensive so they must be better. Three, they were designed for the 993tt and that carries more street cred than the 928GTS.

The fact is that the blacks were designed for a front engined water cooled car v's a rear engined air cooled car. (Not that the cooling has much to do with it but I like to distinguish between the front and rear brigade) Our cars being front engined should be more suited to the Blacks. The only mechanical difference is that a part of one of the pistons is a bit smaller inside (I think?) but this again should suit our cars possibly more as we don't want to be overbraked and create way too much nose dive when hard on the stoppers. So I am trying to see what the point of the reds are apart from the 3 reasons I've come up with above. The price difference is amazing too. One well known retailer has the Reds at $530 and the Blacks at $370. That's crazy. They take the same pad too. Why buy Reds?[/quote]

I have the Big Blacks and am very happy with them.

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[flash]

i haven't looked into this just yet, and don't know the differences between them, but perhaps weight is a difference



i may ultimately look to upgrade my brakes, but not for stopping power - i have plenty of that now, with no fade at all



however, i would do it if i could shave off a substantial amount of weight - therefore i will be looking into aluminum hats and such

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[Eric_K]

Big Reds and Big Blacks are the same calipers. They are just different colors and the bleeder and crossover tube are switched. I think there were just more reds made than blacks as the reds seem to be more commonly available second hand. They used to be only about $40 different in price??? IMHO, the red looks cooler and really stand out. So yes I think reds are more popular because of their color and availability.

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[flash]

i'll opt for black calipers - i don't want anything standing out in there



what about the rotors? material? weights?

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[Tom in Austin]

I weighed everything and surprisingly, the biggest weight increase was in the calipers, not the rotors as I expected. The Big Red calipers weigh 11 lbs each, vs. something like 5-6 for the standard units.



I used 993 TT cross-drilled rotors with custom alloy hats and the final weight difference there was only about 3-4 lbs.

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[Jason Judd]

Tom,



That's the same setup I use, too. I'm glad you weighed them because I never knew what the weight savings was.



Another reason for doing it is that it also makes it slightly less expensive when you replace the rotors, too!



Jason

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[flash]

so you ended up heavier by 3-4 lbs each? is this reds over blacks, or reds over stock?

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[Grant968ts]

[quote name='Tom in Austin' post='30504' date='Feb 2 2007, 04:13 PM']Just upgraded to Big Reds ...there's no such thing as "too much" brakes.[/quote]



I agree. I love my Big Reds. Stops Fast

Grant

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[bob blackwell]

Thanks for sharing the photo, I love them on your car too! Those wheels sure do show off the brakes and get lots of cooling air in too. I went with the 928S4 Black caliper and rotor setup (same as the M030 for the 968) and changed the rear proportion valve to the 5/45 unit at the same time. Very big improvement, now I will be ready to add more power when the engine gets a bit "tired". good luck, Bob Blackwell.

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