[cosimo]

IMA Motorsport is developing bigger brakes for the 968. The specs are:

Front rotors are 332 mm diameter (slotted) and 32 mm width.
Rear rotors are 322 mm and 28 mm width and will have a provision for the E-brake
The hats will be manufactured by IMA.
Braided brake hoses.
Rotors and calipers (red) are off the shelf

We have a 968 customer that wanted bigger brakes and able to keep his new BBS wheels and E-brake. We will be offering this as a kit for 17" and 18" wheels. I will be having put on my car as well. Now to the pricing, our goal is to keep the price below $8000. Check out our web site for a picture.

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[flash]

hmmm - i'm not sure about the sizes, and i hate to rain on that parade, but before he dives into a lot of r&d expense, there is already a conversion kit from a couple of different retailers that has aluminum hats, uses the 993 rotors, and big red calipers - most people only do the front, but i am told by the original manufacturer that the kit is out there for the rears too - i think the fronts are about $1200 for the complete setup

i think the rears are about the same, but i'd have to check that out - if somehow the rears aren't available any more, then this would be a very welcome addition

i have a set of the hats sitting on my bench waiting for me to make rotors and adaptors for oem calipers, as that is all i want, but that project is a long way off

good luck

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[cosimo]

We have the design for the hats. I think ours will be the best quality out there based on our cost for the rotors and calipers alone.

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[pure&simple]

Sounds interesting! Keep us posted!

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[PorscheG96]

Below $8k, seriously? You can buy a 968 for that! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif[/img]

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[cosimo]

You probably can but if you want really great brakes it'll cost you. We already have 2 customers. What if you added Brembos that would be about $25K.

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[flash]

i think the big reds are brembos

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[Monstrous4Banger]

Yeah, they are brembo. So are stock IIRC. Ive priced front and rear with hats, bias valve, 993 rotors, and your choice of big reds, or big blacks, for about 2400. Would you be changing out the master cylinder too?

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[cosimo]

I've checked the Lindsey racing web page and it appears that we are comparing apples and oranges. Our rotors (AP Racing) are 13" compared with 12.5 ", the calipers are bigger and there is no mention of rear brakes. There is also no mention of brake pads. We will supplying Pagid pads (street or racing). If there are bigger brake kits I haven't founbd any. It looks like you can get 944 brake kits but they are still not as "big" as what we will be offering. I have also checked Brembo's web site and do not see any kits for the 968. We have installed quite a few Brembo brakes (street and race) so we are well aware of what Brembo offers. We are not planning on changing the master cyclinder.

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[flash]

let me start by saying that i am in no way picking apart the concept or criticizing the effort - in fact, i applaud it - my thoughts here are intended only to help, and not hinder - i hope only to lend my personal experience with this group, and help you in your efforts - my only pertinent thought is that perhaps there is already something out there, that does not sell much as it is, that is lower priced, and would be in the way of your success - a total kit has a lot of value, and as such, demands a higher price, but speaking from experience, there is a ceiling for this group, and less expensive stuff would tend to muddy the waters

just in case anybody wondered about my motives for my comments, i will NOT be marketing anything in the way of brakes, ever - i have no desire to enter that arena of liability - the cost of the insurance is insane, and i have no interest whatsoever in dealing with any of that

back to the topic at hand, there are a number of front brake kits out there - pelican lists a 12.7" rotor kit that is currently out of stock - paragon carries a kit too - kokeln makes one - there is another company that has one too, but i am having a hard time finding them right now - i'll keep looking though - i know i bookmarked it

that being said, the aftermarket supply of big rears is lacking - perhaps that is the best focus - it sure would save me a lot of work, as that is the only thing keeping me from upgrading my brakes - i want to do the front and the rear in concert - pricing though will determine the volume of sales in this group - given that the other kits are less than $2k, i would expect that customers would have a hard time getting past that for the rears - i know that in my own case, i might tend to buy something already out there for the front, and make my own rears if it was too expensive - companies like coleman will make you hats and rotors in pretty much any size you want for under a grand, so then you just need to choose a caliper and mount it

i like that the master does not change - i never looked into whether or not any of the other kits out there required that - that would be a defining point for me, as i hate messing with hydraulics - good call

as i said way up at the top, i wasn't sure about the sizes, and frankly only knew that the some of the other kits used 993 rotors, so thanks for clearing that up - you said the rotors were "off the shelf" - that's very cool, and better than having to make my own - what are they from?

the lindsey kit comes with pads, but it does not say what they are - at the price they list, i tend to doubt they are pagid though, and are probably some less expensive pad - pagids would be a good track pad for such a kit

as for the "brmbo thing", from what i have been able to find, the OEM brakes and Big Reds are both Brembo (actually, aren't all porsche brakes brembo?)

as for brembo brake kits, here's one:

http://www.bodykits4me.com/product/7759/Br..._Suspensio.html

i hope this all helps - i'd love to see a complete kit out there, and i know that the quality will be outstanding - good luck

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[cosimo]

Brembo does not make the brakes for Porsche. Again we are not the same size. The rotors are from AP Racing. I did not see any 968 kits from Kokeln. The pads are Pagid either street or race. I would think you would want the best pads if you are adding bigger brakes, bigger calipers and bigger rotors.

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[Darryl]

Trying oh so hard not to hijack this thread, but Brembo doesn't make brakes for Porsche??

- Darryl

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[craigawoodman]

When I upgraded my brakes to "Big Blacks" (i.e. 993 turbo front discs and callipers), I retained the OE rears, but I was also told to change the brake proportioning valve. I did not get cross drilled rotors as these have a history of cracking and run solid rotors (slotted was not available as an option then). I track the car extensively (and it is still road registered) and have no problems.

Unless you are running major HP and much higher speeds than a standard car, does it really need much better brakes than this? I have to also agree with the other comments - at $8k plus installation, it is one hell of an upgrade and I would not be sure of how big the mark would be. From memory, the "Big Black" upgrade was around the $2k mark. Next step for me would be a more agreesive brake pad rather than bigger brakes. I recently drove the Mount Panorama track at Bathurst, and even braking slightly downhill (with a large pucker factor) from around 230km/h they did not fade (there is another large application about 15 seconds later as well). This is in a road car which weighs around 1350kg without driver (who adds considerably to that mass once he gets in). A track car can get down around 1,200kg and therefore should be able to get by easier.

I think the 430hp supercharged car built by Ninemeister in the UK ran 993 turbo front rotors and callipers on both front and rears, but you would have to play with brake bias an the bigger brakes are probably overkill on the rears given the braking effort that they can do.

We have people over here running Alcon brakes on a modified Turbo Cayman (550hp), so they will fit a Porsche. There is also the Willowood brand of aftermarket brakes over here.

I was of the belief also that all Porsche brakes are manufactured by Brembo as well.

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[flash]

as is the case with most porsche calipers, the calipers are indeed brembo on the 968, as well as the 928 (big black) and the 993 (big red) - i'm not sure where the other information is coming from, but this is pretty well documented

as with many parts, the rotors changed suppliers over the years - we are pretty sure that originally they were zimmerman - for quite a while they were brembo - now they are textar

you can verify all of that at any dealership

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[cosimo]

It's on there web site as to which car makers they supply brakes to. It's also defined in Wikipedia..

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[flash]

i can't help that - i confirmed it today with max too, as well as with sunset

in the second paragraph on the wiki site you found, they list that brembo began supplying porsche in the 80s

here's a bit of brembo history for reference:
http://www.autotropolis.com/wiki/index.php?title=Brembo

perhaps porsche has a deal with them that precludes their ability to advertise that they supply them - porsche has that arrangement with a number of manufacturers, which is why people think that porsche makes a lot of their own stuff, when in reality they don't

by the way - here's another brembo big red kit for the 968:

http://www.vertexauto.com/showitem.aspx?id=3367&&

here are brembo rotors for OEM:
http://www.buybrakes.com/store/BR25789
http://www.buybrakes.com/store/BR25790

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[Monstrous4Banger]

Pretty sure stock calipers say "Porsche" on the front, and "brembo" on the back. I just sold my loose set of calipers, and dont want to take the ones on my car off, just to take a picture. Not trying to undermine your project, just figured you should know. So you have a better idea, what your up against, marketing wise.

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[Cloud9...68]

The PO installed a set of 944 Turbo S calipers with Zimmerman cross-drilled rotors on my car, and they are fantastic. Not to sound discouraging, but I can't imagine needing any more brake than this. I'm with Flash in that I applaud your effort, but in reality, and I'm sure I don't speak for everybody, the 968 community by and large seems to be a fairly cash-flow challenged group (in my own case, my senior engineer, 95th percentile income is decimated on a regular basis by the end of the month through the rigors of supporting a family of four), so my guess that an $8K set of brakes would have very few takers. I hope I'm wrong, and wish you all the best, but I suspect you will be in an uphill battle to recoup your development costs.

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[cosimo]

We have already sold 2 kits. I realize that the price maybe a bit much but we only sell high end kits with the best parts whether we make or there are off the shelf. I am not going to further the conversation on whether Brembo supplies Porsche. I am only going by what's on their web site and makes no mention of Porsche. We believe that the kits can be installed as a DIY. We have installed quite a few Brembo brakes on race and street cars at a price consdierably more than $8K. When the kits are finalized I can post the final pricing.

By the way the Vertex web site says the brakes are discontinued.

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[flash]

yeah - i saw that they were discontinued there - i have a feeling that they are all the same kit, and the guy who makes the adaptors is short on supply or something

monstrous - you are exactly correct - i believe daryl will be posting a picture of the set he has on the bench which say exactly that

best of luck in the venture

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