[Cloud9...68]

<!--quoteo(post=77152:date=Aug 7 2009, 08:30 PM:name=flash)-->QUOTE (flash @ Aug 7 2009, 08:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->i made my own wrench by grinding down a wrench - cheaper than the one from paragon and i got it locally so no waiting

a standard bicycle spanner wrench does that job for about 6 bucks<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In addition the the thinness of the Paragon wrench, I like the way it's angled. But I'm sure grinding down a standard wrench will work fine as well.

Great to know a bicycle spanner wrench works for holding the pullies in place - this site is an amazing source of information. I'll get one for the next time I do this job.

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[flash]

the one i used was the type where one side is "hinged" so you can span multiple widths - worked great

so did the ground down wrench

i'm all for getting cool tools - i really did this due to time constraints, and was pleased with the results - i may yet order the "right" tools anyway - who knows?

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[danderson]

Well,
I finally changed my belts. I can see why the dealer charges so much. I have done belts and chains on other engines but this was toughter than any I have done. The car seems to be riunning fine and is quiet. I do have one question I would like answered before I button things up all the way. The idler pulley that is under the balance shaft belt. Should that be just touching the belt so it is turning at idle? When I disassembled the belts, it was not touching, but that seems pointless to me. I did not find anything about it at Clark's garage or in the factory manual. Can anybody help me with this? Thank you very much.
Dwight Anderson
94 coupe

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[Ryan]

Dwight,

As I recall the pully was just touching the belt when I put mine back together. Are you just tensioning the ballance belt by feel?

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[flash]

there is a spec in the workshop manual that shows exactly how much gap there should be - it even shows a drawing of which side of the eccentric the tensioning pulley should be on

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[jeff968]

<!--quoteo(post=77150:date=Aug 7 2009, 10:18 PM:name=Cloud9...68)-->QUOTE (Cloud9...68 @ Aug 7 2009, 10:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Yes, I got everything from Paragon, except the timing belt. I got the Gates timing belt from a local O'Reilly.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I'll be doing the belts on my cab this fall. Where you happy with Paragon as opposed to the dealer? Do they sell OEM as well? If so, how are their prices? Would you mind posting them.
Thanks

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[flash]

i don't believe paragon sells gates (OEM for balance belt and entire drive system design - DAYCO was OEM for the timing belt after the width increased)

i know the balance belt they sell is contitech (not OEM)

they have 2 timing belts listed - one that is unmarked in their pic for 37 and change, and one that has porsche stamped all over it, but i can't tell from the photo what brand it really is, and is listed for 119 and change

after seeing all the contitech failures (most recently mine), i'm sticking with gates - in over 30 years of using different belts, i have never had a gates belt fail on any car

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[968TDG]

I'm just ordering the parts I need from Paragon to do the timing and balance belts. should I be replacing the Hydraulic tensioner, or is this not necessary? so far I have:


Front engine reseal kit
balance shaft tensioner
balance shaft roller
timing belt roller - on tensioner
timing belt roller - 46mm
flywheel lock
wrench - 27mm, flat
rebuilt water pump

I will get the gates belts from RSBarn

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[968TDG]

I am also replacing the timing chain tensioner pads, is it necessary or prudent to replace the chain at the same time?

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[flash]

yes, however, there is some debate as to whether or not it causes more cam gear wear

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[968TDG]

what about the hydraulic tensioner on the timing belt, should i replace that unit?

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[flash]

depends on the condition - if it's clean, holding tension, and not over 80k on it, i'd say probably not - there have been a couple of failures resulting in overheating due to inadequate tension on the belt which causes the water pump to not be driven - if there is any question about the tensioner, better safe than sorry

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[Johannvb]

I'm probably on the extreme side of caution, but since this is a job you only do every 3 or 4 years I say replace everything that moves. This approach costs more now but in the long run I do believe your car will be better and more reliable.

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[Bognostraclum]

<!--quoteo(post=75183:date=Jul 8 2009, 05:20 PM:name=Cloud9...68)-->QUOTE (Cloud9...68 @ Jul 8 2009, 05:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Agreed - from all indications, the water pumps seem to be pretty solid on these cars.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Mine seized @ 37.000kms. That's about 23.000 miles.

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[jlm968]

<!--quoteo(post=77067:date=Aug 6 2009, 08:57 PM:name=MikeVT)-->QUOTE (MikeVT @ Aug 6 2009, 08:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->What brand belt is working for everyone? OEM is kinda expensive ($96) but I'm not sure if continental or gates is good too.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Available at AutoZone's website:
$26.99 - Goodyear 40152 timing belt
$36.99 - Goodyear 40293 balance shaft belt

I'm not afraid to go 60k miles with them (and I'm not just writing that to be contrarian). Nice thing about the 968 engine is that the timing belt tension is not a worry so long as the tensioner is in good shape.

I, too, follow Pete's method for the balance shaft belt tension rather than buy the tensioning tool. (I only used the 'cricket' that Arnworx sells to check the alternator/AC and power steering belts.) The 968's balance shaft belt is the loosest drive belt of any engine I've ever seen. Kind of creeps me out, but I'd rather err on the side of having it just a smidgeon tight than too slack.

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[Cloud9...68]

<!--quoteo(post=79213:date=Aug 30 2009, 04:08 PM:name=jlm968)-->QUOTE (jlm968 @ Aug 30 2009, 04:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I'm not afraid to go 60k miles with them (and I'm not just writing that to be contrarian).<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would have agreed with you a year ago (when I thought premature belt failure on these engines was primarily urban legend), but I would recommend you do a search on the subject - there have been a number of failures recently, along with some near-misses (sheared-off teeth without actual belt failure). The other factor to consider is belt age. If yours is a daily driver, and you consequently log about 12,000 miles a year, a 60,000 mile change interval takes you to five years, which is the commonly accepted outer safe limit for belt life. If you drive less, you will obviously go beyond 5 years. At a max, I would recommend 5 years or 60,000 miles, but I would say 45K is probably a better bet.

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[ds968]

The first timing belt looked and felt in perfect shape at 60k when I replaced it and it had been in the car for close to nine years... car was driven in Texas temps for seven of those years and Colorado temps for the other two. My second timing belt snapped only 43k miles later ( the balance bellt btw was in like new condition with the same mileage on it ) and the belt was in the car for a little over six years. Who knows, maybe some belts will last 120k miles or 15 years, while others fail at 30k miles or after three years, but I'm going to change mine every 45k miles or four years, whichever comes sooner.

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[flash]

my belts were 5 years old, constantly checked, and never subjected to wild temp swings - still went bad

3 years is the recommendation

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[firefish]

I wonder how fast they go visibly bad? Is it like instant failure or something that takes place over time with slow deterioration of the belt until it finally snaps.
It would be an easy task to open up an inspection hole in the plastic cover (and fab a cover for it too) to enable frequent checks. I check my oil and look for leaks every time I fill gas so it wouldn't be big trouble to check the belt also. I realize that only a fraction of the belt could be chequed every time and that it would not be a very thorough check but at least I would see if it was coming apart. Now I check it through the little hole in the aluminum cover by the distributor but that only allows me to see the side of the belt - not much to tell there and it says nothing about the condition of the teeth. It would be good if said hole allowed for balance belt check too.

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[flash]

apparently there is no visible warning - mine "looked" and "felt" perfect - only about 25k miles too

i dodged a very expensive bullet and only lost the balance belt - i could have been in dan's place

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