[ds968]

[quote name='flash' timestamp='1346342507' post='131931']

lol - yeah - it's funny how it takes very little for what is written to be read or taken differently than what the writer intended. it is a reminder that we all need to stop and consider what we are writing before hitting that "post" button.

[/quote]



the autocorrect feature is the real enemy <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/glare.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> ..our lack of attention to detail before clicking on the "post" is only a contributing factor which can be excused by old age..for some of us.. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/rolleyes.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[tamathumper]

Autocorrect? Don't get me started, I wooden nowhere to benign.

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[Chris Vais]

Here you go, check this out for a laugh.

http://www.autocorrectfail.org

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[Lord_Galva]

[quote name='flash' timestamp='1346342507' post='131931']

lol - yeah - it's funny how it takes very little for what is written to be read or taken differently than what the writer intended. it is a reminder that we all need to stop and consider what we are writing before hitting that "post" button.

[/quote]

+968

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[Lord_Galva]

Wow, what a weekend. I spent most of Saturday with my friends fabricating a huge version of D1R's brace. It's roughly 3x the size and 50x more ugly.

It is "N" shaped using steel for the wall and aluminum for the rest.

I have to fabricate a new "clevis" for the clutch to negate the extra distance it has to travel because of the new brace. However, the clutch is working now with no wall flex.

Once it is all done I'll post pics.



Sneak preview of super ugly brace

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[Lord_Galva]

Found my camera.

Its been two weeks now, and the pedal is rock solid. And the wall is fine.

Oh, engineering and ingenuity. Where would we be without you?

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[tamathumper]

As I posted over there, you're pushing on that strut brace in a direction it's not designed to support. Please consider the forces involved, and ultimately I hope you perform the correct repair. It's your car, but the rest of us are depending on your brakes as much as you are.

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[flash]

you can actually already see the bracket bending



the kla bracket is not up to the job of fully resisting the force of the clutch. that is exactly why there is a gusset in my bracket to resist that force. i also changed the angle of the bracket to help that



so now, not only does he have a messed up kluge of a bracket, he also has a strut tower brace that will bend at the same time it messes up his fuel rail cover.



not the best solution

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[94SilverCab]

Just checked the map and very happy that Vacaville is no where near Paso Robles...happy to be living on the East Coast, eh Tama?



Jay

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[Lord_Galva]

Actually the metal I used was cut at an angle to fit properly, so it looks bent but it's fine. Also there is no bending at the strut tower either.

Brakes work as wonderfully as they did before.

And I've gone to Paso Robles before and I will again.

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[flash]

i used a photo tool and drew a line though it - it sure looks bent, and right at the middle where the bolt is.



that kla bracket will not hold up. i tested it and it bent under forces 1/10 of what the clutch provides. you can actually wiggle it by hand. it isn't strong enough to adequately resist the forward forces of the chassis, let alone the clutch or brakes (it's 20 times what you can push with your foot). the only reason that strut tower brace works at all is the heim on each end which relieves some of that loading.



you may think your bracket is working, but in reality it is only increasing the failure potential of the firewall. because the kla bracket can fail, when it does, with that brace of yours, it will take the entire firewall with it.



please don't come on the paso fun run with something like that, especially this year where it will be pretty challenging. we are very safety conscious, and we don't want anybody getting killed.

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[tamathumper]

I don't mean to criticize your handiwork, I just feel this is dangerous and I'm not sure why you're taking such a risk with something like your brakes. You are free to repair your car as you wish, but I would not want any of my children in a car with that kind of thing holding the brakes together. I do hope that it works for you, and that it is as effective as you say, as anything to the contrary would be disastrous for you and possibly anybody else involved in such an event. It could be, as they say, a "binary learning event" - you either live, or you don't.

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[mbardeen]

But Tama, this is not for the brakes, this is the clutch pedal master cylinder. What I would be worried about is the firewall cracking the rest of the way and rendering the brakes inoperable. But given that the brake master cylinder is closer to the tunnel it's less likely to be affected by the firewall cracking on the the fender side of the firewall.



I can see the brace bracket flexing that Flash mentioned. I think a proper repair should involve a plate welded in there to reinforce the firewall, plus a brace. I have noted a tear in the firewall on my car even with a steel plate welded in.. it could be from prior to the repair, or it could be from after. Either way, a brace makes good sense.



Edit: Looking closer at Galva's repair, the bend appears to be there prior to installation of the homemade bracket. And I don't think the fix is too awfully bad. Based on my common sense engineering skills, when the firewall moves toward front of the car, it will be transformed to an upward-forward force on the strut brace bracket. Whether that brace bracket is strong enough to resist the force is a matter of degree and exact implementation. If the force mostly upward, the brace bracket doesn't have to be too thick or strong laterally to resist the movement.



Personally, I'd think those two bottom bolts would give before the brace bracket did.

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[flash]

the force is mostly forward.



you can feel the brakes go soft when the firewall rips. he even noted that.



the problem with what he did is that when the brace bracket fails, it will then pull on the firewall. the already weak spot on the firewall, which has not been repaired, will then be even weaker. all he has done is connect two weak components.



this is not a good solution. the firewall needs to be welded back together. the strut bracket needs a forward gusset.

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[mbardeen]

[quote name='flash' timestamp='1348080413' post='132935']

the force is mostly forward.

....

this is not a good solution. the firewall needs to be welded back together. the strut bracket needs a forward gusset.

[/quote]



It depends on angle. From the photos it looks like the angle of the brace from horizontal is more than 45 degrees. That means more force upward and less forward. If it's less than 45 degrees, the force is more forwards. For the non-engineers reading, it works just like a ladder. Lean it against the wall and push the base inwards, where does the top go?



That said, I'll assume you've calculated all this when designing your solution so I'll defer to your greater expertise!



I also agree on your sumary. Both of those things will make it more secure and should be done.

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[flash]

yup - there is an upward component, but it is mostly forward. it takes relatively little forward force to move the kla bracket. you can do it by hand. even at 50%, the amount of force applied by the clutch would be enough to eventually bend it. because the firewall itself is weak, the entire assembly is now dependent on the cantilevered attachment point on the kla bracket. this is a bad idea. at a bare minimum a gusset needs to be added.



i'd be embarrassed if i ever did something like that and let anybody see it

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[bombfactory]

I will have a KLA strut brace available as soon as Flash is stocked up on the D1R brace, if anyone is interested.

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[mbardeen]

I went and looked on my own car, I see your point, angle is less than 45, probably more like 30 degrees from horizontal.



I also stuck my camera in there and got a video of what we're up against. Mine flexes, even with the steel plate in place.

This is looking straight down at the master cylinder. On the back wall you can see the crack I mentioned earlier. I think I pump the clutch three times.



[media]http://youtu.be/vnBiXXw0Y7s[/media]

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[ryker]

After reading this, it seems imperative that all manual cars get the firewall brace, and thus the strut tower brace. I have two cars, so twice the fun! I have all the documentation on my '92, and it was repaired by welding. I have no idea on the '94 but I do not see any evidence of a repair, nor a problem. Although the clutch is pretty stiff, so does concern me. Flash, I know you're winding down but any plans to manufacture any more of these? Are these truly must-have safety items, in your opinion?

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[hot968]

Very interesting stuff I will have the mechanic check mine out.

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