[peartree]

Any tips on brake bleeding? I think I must be doing something wrong...



(Working at right rear only at the moment and will continue to other corners once I figure out what I'm doing wrong). I'm using a vacuum bleeder and I could only draw about one ounce of fluid at the caliper. Even at 25 in. Hg vacuum, I wasn't able to draw any more fluid from either of the two valves on the caliper.



I had the same issue before when I did it the two-person method (one person repeatedly pressing on the brake pedal, while the other opens the valve to release fluid).



It just seems that I should be able to continuously draw fluid. Thoughts?



Thanks

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[Dave]

I've never used the vacuum bleeder, only the Motive Power Bleeder (which I am quite fond of by the way).



Sometimes... the bleeder valve is a little gunked up, especially if the brakes have not been bled in some time. This usually breaks free with the "pedal" method you mentioned, and rarely seems to affect all bleed screws at the same time. So, let's assume that's not it.



The overall volume of brake fluid in the system is actually pretty small. Picture a liter for the reservoir, ABS unit, all four big shiney calipers, AND the lines that connect them all. Thus, the flow is usually pretty slow. Even with 15 psi on the pressure side, each bleed screw takes well over a minute to get a couple of ounces (say 100 ml) out.



Assuming the reservoir is full and such, the fluid should never STOP coming, just may take some time. I am suspecting that the vacuum may not be sealing/covering the open bleed screw?



Not much help, I apologize. If you plan on doing this regularly, I have to strongly suggest the power bleeder route. It's a pretty bulletproof one-man show and total time saver. My 14-year-old started bleeding the brakes and clutch for me at age 10 with that devise <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[flash]

3 words - Motive Power Bleeder



it's a pressure bleeder and not a vacuum bleeder - pump it up, crack and bleed until done - close it off - many here have one and swear by it - i've used different gadgets before, and was skeptical, but i have to admit, this one actually works

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[bob blackwell]

Another advocate for the Motive Power Bleeder here, it is a big improvement over everything else I have used. Your problem sounds to me like plugged up bleeder screws or worse, plugged up calipers. Remove the bleeder screw first and see if you can blow through it, clean it out if necessary and then bleed that right rear and follow up with the left rear, then right front and finally left front and then the clutch. The clutch bleeder valve is difficult to get to with the starter in place and you may need to remove the starter to simplify the bleeding of the clutch. How has your starter been performing? check to see if the bendix needs to be cleaned up and lubricated, this will be a good time. Clean up the electrical contacts too, sine you will have them disconnected. By the way, since you disconnected the battery ground strap, clean it up too (both ends) this may help a lot with marginal electric circuits. Good luck, Bob Blackwell.

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[Mike in NJ]

Brake fluid can get pretty disgusting. When I got my '93, I had a similar problem. Even with the power bleeder, I couldn't get anything to come out of one of the calipers (using either of the bleeder screws). I ended up having to start the car (to enable the power brake booster) and almost stand on the pedal a bunch of times with the bleeder screw open to get it all cleared out. The old fluid came out thick with lots of sediment. I don't think it had ever been changed, which would make it almost 11 years old. What a mess.



Since then, the brakes have performed perfectly, and changing the fluid is pretty much effortless (as it should be).

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[Brian]

power bleeder. paragon products, amongst others, sells it. not very expensive. there's also a how-to around here for building your own, but i'm not sure you save any money doing it.



i'm no expert, but i'll bet you have a clogged bleed screw. i believe if you remove it, you'll have to drain the better part of the resevoir and refill the system.



if i remember right, these calipers have two bleeders per. you may try opening the other bleeder to see if it's any different. maybe that's why there's two....?



you may want to order some ate blue/gold fluid if you're purchasing the power bleeder. i think most guys here are using it and it works well. it's hard to find dot 4 fluid at the auto parts stores around here.

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[S_Cal968]

The vacuum bleeders work fine with non-abs systems - so I agree the power bleeder is the way to go. However if the system has been neglected, chances are [as mentioned] the bleed screws are plugged. If they are rusty or not easily cleaned, just replace them, they're inexpensive.

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[Dave]

The bleed screws are cheap to replace (along with any missing rubber caps). The calipers are all the 11mm ones, if I recall the clutch is 7mm.



'Course, once you remove the screw, must bleed air out. If you are FAST, you can swap the screw with the power bleeder on and not make too much of a mess.



I've got a pretty good power bleeder procedure if you are interested. With the right wheels (stock ones work fine), you never even have to remove the wheels or jack the car <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />



How cool is that!

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[peartree]

Well, if the bleed screws were gummed up, I think they may be cleared... Went back to the old 2-person method, but this time putting more pressure on the pedal. I was then able to get a lot more fluid. For grins, tried the vacuum bleeder again after clearing the screws but found that it still didn't work. Seems like the vacuum pump is basically useless for bleeding our brakes. And, based on the overwhelming support for the Motive bleeder, I'll be adding that to my next paragon order. Thanks

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[Dave]

You won't be sorry.



So...



Black Rhino Ramps - My car will roll right up on them if I place them at the lip of the garage door, on the driveway, which has a very slight slope downward.



Here's the cool part. If I ramp the front of the car this way, I can slide under the rear corners still (just barely) and get the inner screws. Outters done through the wheel spokes.



With the front up on the ramps, I can get the inners and the clutch from underneath, outters again through the spokes.



Run about 12 psi and be patient. It's all you really need. Any more makes me kinda nervous with a 10+-year-old plastic reservoir.



Check/re-pump pressure in between each corner. Have plastic syringe (like the ones you use to give medicine to a child or dog = big) handy to remove any excess from the reservoir.



One liter is about perfect for a flush of the whole system. You can get really good at this and not have to adjust the fluid in the reservoir at all (with a little practice, say, like 10 times a year for a few years).



Good luck.

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[peartree]

Dave,



Thanks for outlining your procedure - I'll give it a try. I already have the Rhino Ramps so I'm halfway there. Are you also using the ate blue/gold as Brian recommends? Sounds like it's the popular choice.



I'm planning to do my first DE this summer so I'm working to get all systems in good shape.

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[Mike in NJ]

[quote name='Brian' date='May 3 2006, 03:53 PM']power bleeder.  paragon products, amongst others, sells it.  not very expensive.  there's also a how-to around here for building your own, but i'm not sure you save any money doing it.[/quote]

Used a Motive Power Bleeder.

[quote name='Brian' date='May 3 2006, 03:53 PM']i'm no expert, but i'll bet you have a clogged bleed screw.  i believe if you remove it, you'll have to drain the better part of the resevoir and refill the system.[/quote]

Nope, removed the bleed screws and barely anything came out. The fluid was gummed up in the lines/caliper.

[quote name='Brian' date='May 3 2006, 03:53 PM']if i remember right, these calipers have two bleeders per.  you may try opening the other bleeder to see if it's any different.  maybe that's why there's two....?[/quote]

Yep, same problem with both.

[quote name='Brian' date='May 3 2006, 03:53 PM']you may want to order some ate blue/gold fluid if you're purchasing the power bleeder.  i think most guys here are using it and it works well.  it's hard to find dot 4 fluid at the auto parts stores around here.[/quote]

I replaced the fluid with ATE. The problem was that the original fluid had developed the consistency of thick maple syrup with lots of sediment floating around in it. Once I got it flushed out though, the brakes have been fine ever since.

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[Dave]

Yes, I like the ATE fluid. Seems to be pretty happy cohabitating with Porsche brakes.

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