[BruceWard]

besides, he'd still need the flywheel lock tool and the new pressure plate bolts (since you can't safely reuse the old ones)

Once I had the bellhousing apart I could see pieces of the clutch sticking out around the pressure plate as shown in this picture. This type of material should be visible through the inspection port, which if I remember correctly is used to measure the thickness of the clutch, and certainly is visible with the bellhousing cover off. Removing the pressure plate requires additional tools and is much more work than the bellhousing cover. But depressing the clutch will open it up for a better look without removing.

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[flash]

as long as it is as large a chunk as yours was, yes, and i am not suggesting that this is not a valid thig to do if you stop short of removing the pressure plate, but it could easily be much smaller, expecially considering tht he has a much lessened symptom



bottom line though, the problem really sounds like something up there, and it would all have to come out regardless of what it was, so you may as well do the job once and skip that exercise



based on the history of the car and its repair, it's time anyway - it's better to spend the money now, and avoid more money later - he may even get lucky and not have to change the pressure plate and save himself a couple of hundred bucks by doing it BEFORE it gets bad

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[SILVY968]

New info:



The pedal "notchy" feeling is not there when the car is not running. The pedal is smooth. Could this be fluid, or either cylinders??? When in neutral at idle the clutch pedal is "notchy"



Any ideas?



This one problem could be thee only problem or it could be the clutch as well, but since it is not slipping I am suspicious.



I am taking the car in next Tuesday to see if they can nail the problem down.

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[BruceWard]

When was the last time the brake & clutch fluid were changed and bled?



It seems to me that a "notchy feeling" would be caused somewhere in the pedal linkage, clutch hydraulics, fork, needle or throwout bearing.



The big question is whether this is a sign of impending doom or simply the fact that 968s are not the smoothest operators?

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[flash]

if it were in the hydraulics or the fork, the notchy feeling would be there regardless of engine running or not, since they are not affected by that



it is the fact that it only occurs when running that tells me something is amis in the clutch assembly

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[SILVY968]

The car did have the brake fluid changed in Dec of last year. Does the clutch fluid need to be done seperatley or do they both derive fluid from the same container on the driver's side of the firewall?

I different, where and how?

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[SILVY968]

   

This is for a 944.

Is the 968 similar?

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[Dave]

It's the same shared fluid system. The bleeder for the clutch is on the clutch slave cylinder near the starter (remove negative terminal at the battery if you wish to avoid fireworks).



Has a relatively hard-to-get-a-wrench-on little 7mm bleed screw. You'll note the feed to the clutch is on the reservoir, kinda high on the side. For this reason, you want to keep the reservoir level pretty high when doing any clutch bleeding.



Otherwise, it's easy to suck a little air into the system. Ask me how I know...

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[flash]

yes, you need to flush and bleed the clutch - you should do this every 2 years, same as the brakes



yes, you need to use a power bleeder to do it



no, i really don't think that will fix your problem - air may cause the symptom of the problem to be increased, because it may be "bouncier" than fluid, but since you don't have the problem whith the engine off, and this is not a boosted system, it won't solve your problem by bleeding it

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[Rude944]

Alright, I'm new to this forum, but I am an old hand at 944's. 5 years specifically wrenching on them at PowerHaus. I recently bought a 1994 968 and am having the same issue. I believe it has to be in the rotating assembly.



I can rule out the hydraulics as is would give a notchy pedal when the engine is stopped. I can rule out the throwout fork/bearings as this would be similar to the hydraulics.



I think I may be looking at the Dual Mass flywheel, Pressure Plate or Throwout bearing.



My situation is imtermittent, at times, I do not have any notchy feeling whatsoever, usually after freeway driving, coming to a stop.



Please post to the results of having a tech inspect it. I figured that this would be documented elsewhere and here it is.



Where are you guys sourcing your parts? The dealer is asking for around $900 for a new assembly, if I have to get a new flywheel, that elevates the price to a g more then that.



Can someone tell me the differences between the Dual Mass flywheels? There is a cutoff and known problems to early ones? Is the late flywheel single mass?



This issue really compromises the drivability of the car. I hope to replace my cluch soon in any event, at 82k miles. I love the access panel... much easier then the early style clutches.

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[SILVY968]

Just spoke to MONTY at Redmond European about the clutch.



Cause is a bad pressure plate. Seems to be off center, like either it is bent or there is something caught in there. They did not take it all apart to be sure, but it will go in next week for a new OEM clutch kit, needle bearings and flywheel seal ( fix the leak while we are in there).

Flywheel prelim rebound test looks good.

Should be about $ 1,400.

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[SILVY968]

RUDE944

The best price for a 968 clutch kit is $ 546.35 from Jeff Clark at Sunset Imports.

From: jeffclark@sunsetimports.com

thanks to FLASH for the source.

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[Rude944]

[quote name='SILVY968' date='Sep 7 2005, 08:32 PM']RUDE944

The best price for a 968 clutch kit is $ 546.35 from Jeff Clark at Sunset Imports.

From: jeffclark@sunsetimports.com

thanks to FLASH for the source.

[right][post="9617"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]



Thanks! I called them (I live in Portland) and they quoted me like $700. I then remembered at the ALMS race that there was a cost + 15%. That's how I got to the 546 figure. This is only good till Sept 10th, so order now and say the ALMS deal.



I'm looking at about 650 for all the parts including the guide tube, fork bearings and rod. Far cheaper then I would have paid ANYWHERE else. Gotta love Sunset! If I ever buy new... Well, there is that Carrera GT on the floor there. Now I just gotta find an extra $440k sitting around. Perhaps I can sell my girlfriend into indebentured servitude.



Thanks for the help, I'll keep you posted to my findings... one question. Has anyone seen a flywheel fail on a '94? The thought gives me fits.

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[flash]

short answer is yes



there is a rebound test that can be done, but i don't know the specifics



also, check the surface carefully, make sure it is dead smooth

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[SILVY968]

Well, I just got back from the shop and all is well. The problem with the notchy, vibrating pedal was the pressure plate. It seems that one of the springs failed and put the pressure plate out of balance. The whole clutch pack was done as was the bearings on the throw out arm and the leaking flywheel seal was replaced.

The clutch is as smooth as glass and has a longer travel range.



Cost $ 1,300 out the door with their parts.



Next repair is the hal sensor!



Thanks to all who helped diagnose this problem.



Brian

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[flash]

sweet - glad it worked out



sounds like you got lucky and caught it before it screwed the flywheel

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[Greimann]

[quote name='SILVY968' date='Sep 13 2005, 07:49 PM']Next repair is the hal sensor!

[right][post="9826"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

I know you and Frank were planning to disconnect me, and I'm afraid that's something I cannot allow to happen.



I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission. And I want to help you.



<img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[BruceWard]

short answer is yes



there is a rebound test that can be done, but i don't know the specifics

Specs for testing the dual mass flywheel can be found in the factory service manual.

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[Rude944]

I have completed the clutch replacement procedure. A few thoughts in hindsight:



1: always replace flywheel bolts with the CV style or hex replacements. The hardest part of the job was drilling/beating/vice-gripping the stripped out 12 point cheesehead.



2: Replace the pivot bearings/pivot rod and guide tube. Lube them up with the factory sauce



3: have a helper spin the engine



The clutch was not worn that bad at 82k miles, but the linkage and other parts were really starting to fail. The rod and bearings for the throwout fork were pretty bad off and was causing my vibration. Pressure plate and clutch was reasonable. guide tube ad seen better days. Pilot bearing was fine.

Now the clutch is featherlight and grabs near the bottom of travel. A very nice shift. Thanks for the information on the DIY page and for feedback on this thread.

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[SILVY968]

An overlooked procedure is to flush the clutch hydraulic fluid. The new clutch pack makes the clutch grab near the bottom of the travel and is much easier to depress. A HUGE improvement on what you can get used to on these performance cars.

My complements to Rude944 for making this a DIY project.

I am trying to get my metal/welder friend to fab a lift for my garage.

With a safe, locking lift I will be under my 968 more often. For now I keep the DIY projects on the topside and the interior.

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