[Roboman]

Help needed......


I ordered a brake MC(94435501110) which I thought was (is?) for my 968 only to find it is for all 944s post 1987 except turbo and not 968s.

 

When I took it out of the box it had an extra port in it, which surprised me as I thought it was just a stock photo.  Then I thought it was maybe the extra port was an alternative to accommodate LHD and RHD.

 

Searching again I found a different MC (95135501101) which is for all 944s post 1987 including turbo and 968s .....same photo!  Grrrrrr

 

How does that work ..... both MCs cover the same range of 944s .... post 1987 (excluding turbo and 968s)??  Which are vehicles with different MC layouts.


Both are Ate stamped.

 

I understand the bore of 944 pre 1987 was smaller and hence would transfer less pressure..... but in this case 94435501110 has the larger bore and the external layout of both seems identical except for the extra port.... which is opposite my front brake pipe and must be working off the same internal chamber.

 

Do I solve this problem with a blanking stopper for the unused port??  Part number anyone?? Anyone know if the bore and depth of those ports is the same as the brake nipples?

 

Thanks in advance

 

Oh, and the site I usually use had discontinued the 951xxx so this information could be useful for others in the future.

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[Roboman]

I'm gradually working this out for myself but would certainly like some help/confirmation ....

 

1. I've used digital callipers to measure the external characteristics of both MCs; all are within machine tolerances except for one dimension ....the hole into which the booster push rod slides.  The rod sticking out of the cylinder is longer, but the hole is deeper by the same amount, ie the point of contact of the booster rod within the MC is the same.

 

2. This from Clark's Garage "Most master cylinders will come with instructions for filling the unit prior to installation. This usually involves installing the reservoir tank onto the master cylinder and installing nipples into the brake line ports with clear tubing routed back to the reservoir." 

 

This suggests to me that I should be able to block off the unwanted port with a bleed nipple.  Now I just need to know the internal workings/dimensions of the two MCs.

 

You might ask why I'm doing this ..... because I already have a new, potentially usable MC.  The 951 version is either not available or twice the price here ($620), whereas on Pelican parts both MCs are similarly priced ($230).

 

So I'm trying to avoid returning an item to a company I like and then having to wait for the import from Pelikan.

 

I shall edit this again after I try to fit the new MC and check for fit and "take-up" before the booster rod engages with the MC.

 

EDIT: So some fag-packet calculations reveal the available travel of the booster rod within the MC for the 944 is about 7mm compared with about 13mm for the 951.  But having just scanned about 20 sites in UK, Europe, and the US I've not found any stock apart from Lindsey Racing and they don't seem to accept my address outside the US

 

The annoying thing is they all carry the same stock photo, so I'm not going to know about the extra port until I open the box .... don't you love surprises!?

 

ANY IDEAS ANYONE??  (I guess I could try a rebuild kit, but I really reluctant given other people's negative experiences.)

 

Interestingly the ATE site indicates "No longer supplied by manufacturer"

 

However their next item is this ...... 03.3517-0101.2 .... Screw PLug, Brake Master Cylinder ..... is this the port plug I was asking about in my posting above??

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[vliegwielolaf1234]

First i would not mess around with the brakes , and install the right part .

 

If you are intrested i can ask my supplier , for a price and if they have one in stock .

 

I have no problem sending it to you  , if price is oke and you are willing pay me up front .

.

Greets Olaf 

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[MCL968]

Roboman, we need to deal with something you mentioned earlier, as you may be going in the wrong direction.

 

A smaller bore MC will generate more fluid pressure, but will displace less fluid volume. This could be a problem given that some 944s had fewer pistons in their respective braking systems, and thus would require more pressure, but less volume. The 968 has 8 pistons up front, and 4 in the rear. With that much fluid area, it will need a larger bore MC. A smaller bore MC will work, but the pedal travel may be too far for comfort and safety, and they might tend to grab once the pads make contact.

 

If the bore is the same between the old and new ones, could you simply transfer the piston from the old one to the new one? I have had to do that in the past with Girling products as the internals were the same, but the mounting holes were different. It worked, and the "new" MC looked original yet worked like a new unit.

 

I am reluctant to change something so critical when it was engineered by people far smarter and more experienced than me.

 

My 2 cents,

 

Matt

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[Roboman]

Hi Matt, Olaf, thanks for the input.

 

The front bore is the same (23.8mm), the rear is smaller on the older 944 version (I think 18mm as opposed to 20mm) .... however, smaller bore = more pedal travel for the same callipers could be a problem, thank you.

 

I also agree with your two cents (Porsche mechs being smarter than me), no worries so thanks for that comment too.

 

Olaf, I'll send you a PM later / or tomorrow, I need to go now, thanks.


Edit: Ate replied extremely rapidly, informing me the the MCs aren't interchangeable on the later models because of the introduction of ABS.


I'd like to thank Olaf and Jack for their offers to contact their suppliers. I also managed to contact Lindsey Racing, but they are yet to confirm. So I'm now feeling things are heading in the right direction.


Have a good weekend

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[Waylander]

So the PET says the Master Cylinder has been superceded to 951 355 011 04,

 

currently £495.80

 

03.2023-0542.3

 

and they all use generic pictures, this is especially evident when looking at B6 front shocks, you get a picture of a leg with spring perches looking complete,

 

all the vendor catalogues are online

 

https://web.tecalliance.net/ate/en/parts...f:2;page:0

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[Roboman]

"generic/stock photos" .... this has to be laziness and must give rise to a greater number of returns.  But hey, it's not my business so what would I know?

 

Is 951 355 011 04 a recent addition Waylander?  I've just checked my usual sites (6-off) non had it apart from Pelican, and they "can't confirm it will fit your 968 convertible".

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[Waylander]

The part number might have been updated recently I have no way of telling


The part number can get updated when they change supplier

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[J.Elenbaas]

Robert,

 

Which doesn't mean the part is completely renewed or diferent.

 

The supplier i use for sure checked the 951 355 011 01 number and probably saw also that now its 951 355 011 04.

On the other hand the latest V-Pages i have for the 968 is from 24.07.2017 and still using the  951 355 011 01 number.

 

Which catalogue are you using Waylander?

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[Waylander]

Not using a catalogue, I have a fully functional Porsche PET2 system thats updated every week with both parts updates and prices,


Sometimes Im more upto date than my local Porsche dealership parts department, it the same software they use

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[Roboman]

J .... 011 01 will be just fine I'm certain, I just need to hear from Lindsey Racing .... talk soon.

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[J.Elenbaas]

R, Yepp no worries about that.

 

Waylander, how did you get your hands on that?

Even bigger question how can we?

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[vliegwielolaf1234]

I have an old pet pdf i use , i send the part Nr to my supplier , they look it up in their system , they wil reply with the correct partNr , and if it is available, oem supplier or only Porsche original , then it is up to me .

Some parts i only want original , but in case of say the brake mastercilinder (just as example) , the only difference , original Porsche packaging or in the ATE box , so exact same part but different price , easy choice i think .

 

J.Elenbaas , we zijn bijna buren (almost neighbours )

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[Waylander]

R, Yepp no worries about that.

 

Waylander, how did you get your hands on that?

Even bigger question how can we?

I got the base system from bit torrent, then with a lot of hacking the windows 10 kernel space, managed to get around the software lock, then discovered where to get the updates from


Took me about 2 months to get it working

 





 



 

 

It has the classic spares and the seats as well as all telequipment stuff, some of the prices of bits would make you go grey, Fast charger for the Taycan Turbo S $15,000 plus installation

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[Waylander]

Taycan Systems Backup Battery 40AH, almost $1000, can you imagine having one of these at 30 years old, never happen

 

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[vliegwielolaf1234]

Nice , just to wander around in . 

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[Waylander]

the problem with just wandering around is you get the I want, I need, that could do with replacing syndrome, and the shopping list grows and grows

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[J.Elenbaas]

At least it gives something to do during a rainy week in covid time.

 

Thanks for the info Waylander

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[Roboman]

I THINK THE FORUM SHOULD STAND UP AND TAKE A BOW   :clap:

 

I've had wonderful support during this dilemma of not being able to source the correct part, but having a possible alternative; advice on not putting in the "wrong" part (more on that later**), offers of help on the forum/by email/by phone, and finally sourcing the correct master cylinder and sending it on to me.  I couldn't ask for more, and repeat what I have previously expressed which is this is by far the most professional and supporting forum I have come across.

 

Special thanks Matt for talking me out of using the 944S2 MC, to Olav and Walylander for offering to source an MC for me, ENORMOUS thanks to Jack for sorting the MC from his supplier and organising postage, and to Jay for spending more of my money for me .... I decided to get those stainless brake lines in order to head off possible splits given the new MC pressure.

 

What more can I say  :clap: 

 

** As a matter of interest, I measured the MC-to-booster connection dimensions for both MCs, and although different, I believe both will work. 

-In both cases the booster rod slides through to the end of the socket in the MC shaft as the external surfaces of the booster and MC unite (within 1/2 mm according to my vernier). 

-It seems that the MCs are now made with three ports (not 100% certain of that) so that the same outer design can accommodate ABS and non-ABS.  A plug is now sold if one only needs two ports, cf our 968s.

-The sizes of the inner chambers differ, so as Matt pointed out, this will effect the fluid pressure and pedal travel.

-So what I'm suggesting is, AS A LAST RESORT, these MCs may well be interchangeable and a 944 version may well get you out of trouble even if it doesn't work 100% or be intended as a long term solution.  I cannot comment on pedal travel because I didn't fit the 944xx etc, however I can say that the cross section area of the 944 pistons is about 10% less than that of the 951, so there is not much doubt it would work; but how well it works is another question.

 

Again, my thanks to all.

 

Robo

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[Roboman]

I'm about to round this one off for now, but the update is this ...

 

The new 95135501101 arrived as a substitute (thanks again Jack), the external dimensions are almost identical, the front chamber is the same (23.8mm diameter), and I am not sure of the rear chamber though going by external dimensions the diameter of the rear chamber may be 2mm smaller than the original.

 

It comes with three ports as opposed to the original two, and I note the exploded diagram on the RosePassion site shows three ports with a bleed nipple on the unused port; no worries except that anyone changing out their MC should know they are likely to need either a bleed nipple or blanking screw was well.  Unfortunately with the ubiquitous use of stock photos it is not easy to know what one is going to get.

 

I have the booster, MC, and clutch MC in place, and when the bleed nipple arrives on Monday I shall prime the system enough to head to my local garage (500 mtrs with no corners) on Tuesday, where the local mechanic lets me work with him.  To be honest I don't need him to do the job (famous last words) but it is a good excuse to get the car up on a lift so I can have a good nose around underneath.  So hopefully on Tuesday I shall be able to report a successful conclusion to this project.... fingers crossed.

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