[dlearl476]

Question for the forum: I got my belts from Rock Auto today and I have, as my friend used to say when something didnt seem quite right: That Lonesome Feeling.


My Gates Racing Timing belt came in a Gates box. With a blue belt pictured on it, and Made in USA printed in the box. The problem? The belt itself is black, looks just like a regular timing belt, and has Gates RPM Made in UK printed on it. Same numbers T152RB.


Am I being paranoid?

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[ds968]

I learned that Gates produced the racing belt in both blue and black, but could be only black lately . ( even if the box and online image everywhere shows it only in blue )  I also heard they were planning to, or already did , move all of their belts production to the UK and terminate that segment which was manufactured in the US, although they’re still using the same boxes design. 

However, it’s odd that the same number is on both racing and regular belts ..so your regular belt has RB on it also ?!   I thought the RB designation on the belly stands for Racing Belt , and the regular belt was just T152 .   

 

I’d contact Gates directly and ask them.   ( I spoke to their customer service department many , many years  ago about their timing and balance belts to get some clarification on longevity differences, etc. ) 

Try this number :   Gates Automotive U.S. support line   <a> (303) 744-5651.  Hopefully it’s still the same . </a>

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[dlearl476]

Yeah. Im going to have to call Gates. I tried unsuccessfully to see what Gates number was for the regular belt. I cant find it online, although the picture of the Racing Belt on the FCB Euro site is black with Gates RPM on it, too. Im thinking its probably T152. Like you said, the RB is most likely fir Racing Belt. (FWIW, the 924-early 944 belt is T125)


I was going to call Gates anyway to see how much/minimum order it would be to make a 1/2-5/8 hose with a pre-formed 90° angle on it to make a repair piece for my PS return line. I imagine its in the 100s/$10K dollar range, but it doesnt hurt to ask.


Yes, number is still the same. I looked it up already.

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[dlearl476]

Just talked to a tech at Gates. He said to his knowledge, all Gates Racing Belts are blue, but he said he needed to do some checking to verify.


I also just noticed that both Rock Auto and FCP Euro say the belt can be blue or black. Im wondering if they dont make blue ones in the USA and black ones in UK and when US stock gets low they ship them here.

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[ds968]

<b>carid.com </b> also has the Gates racing belts ( T152RB ) listed, and shown in blue, but I just got on a live chat with their customer  support and they advised the racing belt is only available in black now, and has only been available in black for years ..if you get a blue one it’s probably old stock, and may have been sitting on a shelf for many years .  But unlike the regular belt it has RB on it, and of course the price is  3x to 4x.   

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[dlearl476]

carid.com  also has the Gates racing belts ( T152RB ) listed, and shown in blue, but I just got on a live chat with their customer  support and they advised the racing belt is only available in black now, and has only been available in black for years ..if you get a blue one its probably old stock, and may have been sitting on a shelf for many years .  But unlike the regular belt it has RB on it, and of course the price is  3x to 4x.

That's so funny, Dan. I got nervous with my appt coming up next Tuesday so I ordered one from them, figuring if one turned up blue, great, if not, I'd return the one to Rock Auto. (I need to return the PS reservoir I bought, mine was fine.) CarID was $10 more than RockAuto. Hmmm.

I've been working on my Power Steering all day, so I haven't check my email for a response from Gates


ETA: no news.

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[gtolou]

Just had a gates racing belt put in and it was black. My understanding is that they are no longer made in blue. Matter of fact, I had two of them (forgot I had already ordered one) and they were both black.

 

Gates racing timing belt.

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[dlearl476]

Just had a gates racing belt put in and it was black. My understanding is that they are no longer made in blue. Matter of fact, I had two of them (forgot I had already ordered one) and they were both black.

 

Gates racing timing belt.

Yes, I just got the answer back from Gates:


"That belt is black – the pictures out there are generic “stock” photos – or incorrect in this case"

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[dlearl476]

Anyone due for a belt change in the near future? Like I posted, due to my impatience and paranoia, I have a spare T152RB sitting in my hot little hands. Before I return it, I thought Id see if anyone is interested in it. Rock Auto price was ~$75, AZ Auto a little more. How about $80 delivered via Priority Mail to US locations?

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[Waylander]

Cant buy them over here

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[dlearl476]

Its weird that theyre made in UK but not available there. Kind of like the PS hose thats in the catalogue but cant be purchased.

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[dlearl476]

So anyone running this TR153RB find them to be noisier than a Conti belt? The last two times Ive had my belts done, theyve whined a little bit on startup, but quieted down within a couple of miles. This doesnt seem to ever get quiet.

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[ds968]

No, no audible difference whatsoever in my car. 

 

( and the supercharger does not make the engine any noisier so other sounds might be muffled...well, not until close to the rpm redline when it will whistle  a bit ) 

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[dlearl476]

Thanks, Dan. Im wondering if I was foolish in thinking I should just replace the belts because they only had 10K miles on them. One pulley was buggered when they got in there, so I had them replace that one. I later relented and told them to order the kit, but that message got lost in translation and the tech said the rest of them were fine.



I wonder if a loose or tight belt makes more noise? They left my serpentine belt way loose.

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[ds968]

Not sure about a loose belt making noise ( other than maybe a slight flapping sound, if you listen very, very carefully ) , but I’d think an overly tightened belt would cause enough friction to definitely make some noise.   The automatic tensioner for the timing belt should adjust for the correct tension to allow for whatever installation margin of error, but that’s just speculation on my part ..  

However, since you’ll need to adjust the balance belt tightness after the first 2 k - 2.5 k miles post installation, it’s probably prudent to check the new timing belt tension also.  Timing belt failures by themselves are extremely rare, but balance belts coming loose, and jumping the rollers or being sheared by the edge of the rollers and then taking out the timing belt has happened on a few occasions.. so whatever the expense may be checking that drive belts assembly, it’s probably well worth it .   

Side note rant :   968 Porsche engineers were idiots ( probably Hans coming back to work drunk after Oktoberfest and thinking a timing BELT is a good idea for this car as opposed to a timing CHAIN ..which never fails.  Maybe the thinking was that a chain is marginally noisier and the 968 was supposed to be a nice an quiet touring car .. UGH ! .  And no, it’s not because the 968 has an aluminum engine and the expansion would be better tolerated by a belt as opposed to a chain ..that’s a myth , there are plenty of aluminum engines our there with timing chains .  Ok rant over  now .. ) 

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[Waylander]

On a 968 the only belt that makes a noise is an over tight balance belt, or loose serpentine belt for ps or alternator



The cam belt is automatically tensioned correctly

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[Waylander]

Timing chains have a lot more weight to tow round and absorb horse power, and they stretch, and the sliders and tensioners wear out,

The aluminium V8 in the triumph stag had a 7foot long chain, a real pain in the donkey



Mixing chains and belts for the balance shafts would have been tricky, and two chains would have increased the engine size quite a bit

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[ds968]

Ah, I didn’t think about the horsepower draw.. on a V8, or a turbo 6 , perhaps not that big of a deal, but considering Porsche squeezed every single pony possible out of the 968 four banger, perhaps the choice clear.    I hereby absolve Hans whom I wrongly accused of poor engineering .. 

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[dlearl476]

Wish me luck. After a year of fretting about it, Im taking it back to the only mechanic I trust to work on it. Ostensibly for a 2500 mile re-tensioning, although Ive only driven ~1,000.



Im torn, I regret taking it to the shop I did. While theyre a well respected Porsche shop, when there was an item in my bill for rental of a tensioning gauge I realized they had no experience with water coolers.



OTOH, it may totally be my own fault. Since the belt had 5 years on it, but only ~3K miles, I opted to only replace the belts. When the shop called and said one roller was iffy, I should have replaced them all.

My best guess from listening to the cover with my auto-stethoscope, its the top balance shaft pulley bearing thats making noise.



Im 375 miles away from the shop. I hope it makes it.

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[MCL968]

I would take off the top cover and cut the balance shaft belt and remove it. When my rollers went it gave me almost no notice.

 

BTW, I am running the Gates racing belt. 3+ years in and no problems.

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