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968 turbo conversion
#61

Hey Smokie: any more web sites????
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#62

Some more updates:



TURBO INSTALL:



My turbonetics garrett fit nicely on the left side engine support. Just need to get the long 8mm bolt and O ring. Oh yeah, I know the compressor cover is facing the wrong way. Going to see a friend tomorrow about the turbine housing. He has done some work on 944 turbos and is fairly familiar with them. He also has many housings in his turbo shop. I guess I should have the whole turbo R+R'd as well.



His site:



http://www.turboconcepts.com/



Also, he is the only local dealer of the Haltech systems(i could buy it online...but if there is a problem, nice to have someone to go to....)



Below are some pics of the turbo mount and the new intake block off plate and special gasket. Blocks off the idle speed control and h2o circuit , both of which will not be used at the throttle body. Idle speed control will be installed in a different location probably w/standard Bosch stepper unit.



Found my old TPS for the mitsu throttle body. Just like new now!





PS: FLASH: THANKS FOR THE ADDITIONAL PHOTO UPLOAD SPACE!!! Gonna need it for this project....
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#63

X,

I think I have one of those long 8mm Bolts (Brand New) from when I replaced the turbo on my 951 a few months back.

I will throw it in the box with the splitter.

I am going to FedEx tonight.
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#64

DUDE!!! Your the man!!! <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />



I had to die cut an american 3/8th 6in bolt for the mock up...wouldn't work for the final setup though.
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#65

Which O-ring do you need? I may have some left over.
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#66

just the turbo oil drain rubber ring and any of the copper rings (like the oil return line rings at banjo bolt)...don't worry about it. I found a great site that has all the seals and gaskets and things.



http://www.pauertuning.com/index_files/exhaust.htm



but hey, if you want to send it , I won't say no to free parts!! (if it's free)



THANKS!



did you guys know that a new left engine support is 800$ and oil return line is 350$ and 944 clutch fork is over 300$.....thank you ebay used parts sellers for saving me some REAL CASH!!
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#67

I will do all I can to keep you under budget. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/wacko.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />



So now you just save $7.64. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/mellow.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />
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#68

Hey thanks! that's a pack of smokes and a 1/16th gallon of gas!



turbo



spent a few hours with Nick of "TurboConcepts" He was very helpful . we looked at a toyota inline 6 1200hp beast stuffed into a NIssan 300Z and several other projects he is working on. He will rebuild my turbo and we will add a slightly bigger compressor wheel and cover. I will keep the 48 turbine housing and just add a stainless cover.





Also talked about fuel control. Will go with Haltech, but probably an E6 system, which is cheaper.





But the good news is that Nick is now manufacturing his own Wastegates with stainless bodies and aluminum diaphram housing. I held one in my hands. It is compact and very well made. ALSO, he is now manufacturing blow off valves. Man, these were fantastic. WAY BETTER than the chinese ebay cheapies AND way less costly than HKS. His is a polished aluminum 360 dump with V channel mount. Even the top cap had the hose fitting made of coated steel so that you don't strip out the threads. One of these was mounted on the toyota engine mentioned above. ALSO, he offers different springs for different pressures. FANTASTIC STUFF! and GREAT PRICES!
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#69

Little knock on the door and guess who is there....Mr More Parts!!! wife getting just a little pissed by now.....



Beautiful work by one of the ebay guys, 'jjbare'



This stuff looks brand new. Not even a rounded bolt head!!
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#70

X,

I sent you an email with a pic of the bolt. Let me know if it is the one you need.
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#71

Moving right along on your project!



Too bad you're not out here in Colorado with me to enjoy actually DRIVING a 968 on twisty mountain roads, and also where the turbo would be a great compensation for the 9,000-11,000 ft passes here. The NA 968 does okay, too. I can't keep the grin off my face!
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#72

thanks for rubbing it in, bro.
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#73

hey i just had a crazy idea, of coarse its impractical and would be verrrryyy expensive. BUT if money were no option what if you had a twin turbo set up similar to the 959. so you would have a say 25-30mm turbo on the hot side directly attached to the manifold, then the exhaust plumbing off that would run over to say a 60+mm turbo is the usual spot under the intake manifold. and thus no turbo lag, and massive high end power. like i said its fun to dream about doing this crazy stuff.
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#74

yeah, nice idea twin turbos, but for a four banger, not really necessary. and ther is not much room to work with.



TURBO:



I plan to run for the most part in the 3500-7000 rpm range and I will build the turbo accordingly. Speaking of which, Nick and I discussed the turbo build some more today. My original T3 .48 a/rhousing is great for 2.0-2.5L flow rates with 16v head. Obviously, our engines are not this size. And since I am not destroking the engine and keeping the original volume at 3.0L, I decided to move up to a .63 T3 turbine housing. This will allow more flow and create less backpressure but still be able to drive the turbine wheel effeciently. With our engine, this will allow power capability of at least 400hp. However, I don't intend on going that high. On the other hand, I will lose some low end boost and will have to get by on the 8.5:1 comp ration. Since I plan to shift like I do now, in the 4-6000 range, I am going with a turbo that is 'on-boost' at this rpm range or higher. Nick is also checking compressor and turbine deck height to make sure the wheels are centered on the air flow.



We also increased the size of the compressor side. remember, turbos are like a figure eight circuit with two open ends. what you do on one side affects the other side. What is nice about the T3 style of turbines is the interchangeability. You can find any size you need in the housing and the wheel. But I think they stopped making them recently. not sure...



Generally , the smaller the a/r turbine, the more high speed exhaust is directed on to the turbine wheel which causes it to spool faster (with a give volume of exhaust). You would not put a .48 a/r T3 on a v8 mustang as a single turbo, but you could use two in a twin turbo setup. You have to find a balance.



The volumetric efficiency of the 16v head with stock valves is excellent (as we all know). So this will make a great turbo head as well. I am not going over 2 point of boost ever, so this head should be fine with stock cams and timing as discussed above. Intercooler (which has not arrived yet) and lower compression will allow more boost than without these advantages, and risk of detonation is decreased. More boost= more power. BIG thing is to keep intake and especially exhaust heat down.



My center cartridge is oil and water cooled. helps to extend turbo bearing life. hopefully, in a week or two, I will have some turbo pics....





FLYWHEEL:



flywheel arrived. It is perfect but just needs contact surface work. Nice thing about the S2 flywheel is:

1) fits housing and crank

2) weighs ~16 lbs, faster spin up means faster 'on-boost'

3) has timing marks (unlike the 944 turbo or NA engine) so that I can use stock 968 fly sensors with the haltech

4) although it has a slightly smaller radius than the turbo fly (and hence less contact area), Centerforce makes a dual friction pressure plate and disc for 479$. that makes it way cheaper than 944 turbo or 968 centerforce setups. The centerforce disc and pp will be more than enough for my build.

5) Ring gear is the only major clutch issue. I was able to buy an S2 pp W/ring gear in excellent for 25$ (ring gear from dealer or pelican is 400$). I just have to heat it and press it off ..then heat it and press it on the new pp...not a big deal) ring gear is held in place partly with 9 bolts as well, so I am not too worried about removing and replacing

6) everything fits in standard 944 S2 housing which then allows more room for exhaust pipes



So for all the above reasons, I have chosen to go with the S2 clutch approach. Unfortunately, you have to find all the parts to make it work.
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#75

X,



I'm saving up my pennies cuz I truly feel you're going to be the first to break the "bolt-on" barrier. I feel like Jerry Lewis should be asking us to pledge more money to keep this great cause going. I'm up for a donation, any others? <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/rolleyes.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />



I want to be the first to officially say, "I want one of those" the moment you roll your baby off the dyno and have to drive straight to the emergency room to have surgery repairing the facial muscle trauma (read: permanent smile <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/biggrin.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> ) that will no doubt ensue following your successful endeavour.



I applaud you friend... Bravo....... bravo indeed!!!
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#76

THANKS!! but it is a long way from being completed, and I may be in the midst of a job transfer to missouri, which could hold things up a bit.
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#77

Intercooler



inter(after)cooler arrived today. very nice unit for 100$!!! very good welds and helicoils inserted at the four mounting points. Looks like bar and plate style. internal flow directors to break up laminar flow in each of the transverse tubes. Very thick endcaps and robust mounting plates and lugs. The inlet/outlet tubes are very thick with a cast lip, so no compressing the connectors when tightening the hoses, and no slipping off...



Gauranteed made in china because the bolts are nice, but not american quality. also packed well in recycled cheap cardboard and low quality styrofoam.



Got it from 'CXracing' on ebay. could buy one from a porsche aftermarket supplier for 700$ or more, and I doubt it would be any better. ONLY drawback is weight (about 13 lbs) which is heavy for this size IC, but I will accept the weight for increased durability.



Anyway, a GREAT purchase.
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#78

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#79

Hey, hey, hey! anyone following this thread will love reading this:



Just spent 2 hours with Nick of Turboconcepts. Man, does he have a lot of turbos at his shop...and wheels, and shafts, and housings...and a few cool cars. OK. so basically, he talked and I listened as he taught me about turbos.He and I agree on some things like "you can do all the math you want, but finding the right turbo means testing on a live subject. We both ran numbers, I more than he. I came up with a T04E compreesor and a T3 .63 a/r turbine. He came up with the same thing from experience and numbers. And he figured the wheel trim.



My original turbine was a T3 housing with a .48 a/r, stage III wheel. The new turbine is a T3 housing w/ .63 A/r and stage three wheel. Square back heat shield used to modify internal exhaust flow, dual dynamic oil seal. fully balanced shaft, turbine wheel and compressor wheel. ported turbine to match exhaust flange.



My original compressor was a .70 A/R 60mm inducer (trim unknown..so long ago). The new compressor wheel has a 68mm inducer with extended tip height of inducer and a 3 inch intake. I forgot what the exducer sizes are and if anyone is interested , I can take it apart and measure(pretty important #) Anyway, compressor should flow about 55-60lbs per minute without any problem (similar to a GT35+)..given normal temp and the effeciency of the head and exhaust. More than I will ever need. But enough of what I will need.





Now what the hell does all this mean. Basically, when selecting a Turbo, you have several general sizes to choose from. Inside of each size group are many size ranges and combinations of wheels and inner housing dimensions. And of course any special porting and wheel work can be done. There are so many parts available, I was able to rebuild my garrett cartridge with better bearings and seals and turbine side parts AND put a ported turbine housing AND and new compressor and compressor wheel for significantly less than buying a new GT35+ trubo (at least 1200$ for what I need).



We also upped the flow rate from that necessary for a 2.3 L to a 3.0L. With this turbo and if all works right, we could easily see 400hp. They size ranges we chose should spool up as early as 2800 rpm and pull to near redline. A few other mods also needed like stronger head studs. Like I said before, I don't want more than 400hp at crank; and I want to build this engine correctly, too. Also will finish polishing compressor.



some pics to enjoy.



more pics:
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#80

For those of you interested in what the 3.0L in a 944 (I think) turbo on boost with wastegate kicking on and off(probably the 300z) sounds like, check out (turn up your sound):



http://vision.rambler.ru/users/estdima/1/59/
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