[Carl Fausett]

Hello all, this is Carl from 928 Motorsports LLC writing.

Our company is one of the Big 3 in the 928 world, where we have developed supercharger kits for every year and model of Porsche 928, among others.

<b>We have acquired a 1994 Porsche 968 with the intention of developing a supercharger kit for the 968 - pictures below.

I would like to invite the members of the 968 Forum to provide some input during the design phase if you wish. </b>

I can tell you that our design objectives already include the following:
1) it will be an externally mounted bolt-on kit
2) it will not require disassembly of the engine to install
3) the Air Conditioner will remain in place and functioning
4) the polution control equipment will remain in place and functioning

The first kit will be Stage 1 (non-intercooled) but designed with an eye for the Stage 2 kit (intercooled) to follow as an upgrade.

If you have any ideas or suggestions, feel free to post them here. I listen well. That's not to say every suggestion will make the kit (that isn't possible) but good suggestions just may at that.

Also tell me what does or doesn't work (if you know) as I expect a few 968's have been fitted with centrifugal superchargers by private parties already.

<!--coloro:#0000FF--><!--/coloro--><!--sizeo:2--><!--/sizeo-->Here are some links to cars we have already developed supercharger kits for: <!--colorc-->
<!--/colorc--><!--sizec--><!--/sizec-->

The 32v Porsche 928
http://www.928motorsports.com/parts/32v_stage2.php
(the pictures on this kit are very beautiful, click on them to enlarge them)

The 16v Porsche 928
http://www.928motorsports.com/parts/stage2.php

The Ferrari 308/328
http://www.928motorsports.com/parts/...ger308-328.php

The Ferrari Mondial
http://www.928motorsports.com/parts/...percharger.php

I'm enjoying driving the 968 at the moment, nice car! It is scheduled into our shop on March 20th to begin the development of the kit.

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[SILVY968]

flash,
looks like your cars baby sister!

Boy, this is a thread I'll be reading every day!

brian

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[Cloud9...68]

Hello Carl, and welcome to the forum!

First of all, I'd like to express my appreciation for your plans to create a supercharger kit for the 968. From what I've read about previous attempts at this, some successful, some less so, it sounds like a very challenging project, especially with the A/C kept intact. In fact, to my knowledge, nobody has pulled this off yet. And your plan to make your kit progressive and upgradeable sounds like a smart strategy.

First, a couple of questions. To cut to the chase, how much boost do you plan to run (assuming 93 octane) in the two versions of your kit? And what are your horsepower goals? Will the engine controller need to be upgraded, or at least significantly modified?

And now, a bit of unsolicited advice. Please keep in mind (and I don't think I'm out of line with this assumption) that most 968 owners are of necessity pretty cost-conscious. Yes, the 968 is a fine sports car (or GT, depending on your orientation), but let's face it, most 968s are worth barely north of $10K these days. Given this, I think it's safe to say that any supercharger kit costing over $5000, tops, probably wouldn't find a large number of takers. The general demographics of this forum include large numbers of middle-aged professionals with families to support (this is where I fall), mixed in with younger owners early in their careers. As such, few of us, especially in the current economic climate, have a great deal of disposable income lying around for go-fast goodies for our 968s, as desirable as they may be. So, I would strongly recommend some serious market research, preferably culminating in a fair number of comitted orders, before venturing into something like this.

I hope that last paragraph wasn't too much of a downer, and I wish you the best of success with your project. I personally would buy one in a heartbeat if I could afford it.

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[Scott Collins]

Hello Carl,

Thanks for your post and welcome to the Forums.

There is no shortage of opinion or discussion about supercharging 968's here. One of the unique things about our forum is that in spite of a wide range of thought on the subject, and I do mean WIDE, there remains a cordiality in the discussion. Maintaining this friendly and respectful atmosphere takes work, because folks have to try hard to keep it that way.

A very wise person might review the thread(s) here on the topic to date.

Best of luck!

-Scott

BTW - Love those 928's!

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[SILVY968]

Welcome Carl,

Your work looks beautiful, although I could not access all of the links that you posted. Can you address how you manage the fuel delivery through the rpm range in your current models and how you believe that will translate into the 968 project?

Glad to have you on the forum!
Brian

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[Fox944]

welcome Carl.

This may be something i'm interested in...based on wether or not me and my buddy pick up a 968 we are going to check out this sunday to build into a track car.

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[flash]

carl - welcome to the best 968 site around - you'll find the bunch here to be helpful, warm and friendly

i enjoyed our talk the other day - i wish you the best in your endeavor - i think the idea can work, and i think it can be done with the factory electronics - not sure about the injectors, as they are already near peak, but i think even that is workable - but, as you are aware, it's going to be difficult to fit it in there - we tried with a very small unit and it just wouldn't fit without making a new intake manifold - clocking was a problem, as was getting the air in and out, and the fitting of an air cleaner big enough to do the job and still be accessible

if there is anything i can do to help, please don't hesitate to ask - this is something i would love to see happen, but after all the time i spent on it already, and what looked like it was going to be a much more involved project, i just had to let it go, as this is not what i do anymore and i'm just not set up to take that one on

pete at rs barn would be an excellent resource for you too - he understands these engine likely better than anyone else around, and could probably help you avoid some pitfalls and shortcomings

as to the rest, i agree that the AC must stay, no compromises in drivability, it must be a true "plug and play" system, easy to install for the weekend mechanic, and must retain all emissions equipment

i also agree that the absolute ceiling is $5k - even at that, we estimated perhaps as many as 10 systems over 2-4 years - there just aren't all that many buyers with that kind of cash - the value of these cars continues to plummet, and as they get down into single digits, it's hard for many people to justify the expense, especially when there are so many other cars out there now that are more updated, in better condition, and are as good of a performer on paper

that doesn't detract from the die hard audience who just loves this car though, and would do anything to improve or maintain it - that's why this site is here, and why it is such a success - the members are crazy - gotta love em

best of luck

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[94nine68]

Another issue is that it needs to be emissions compliant in some form. In Connecticut, we do not have visual inspections of the engine, just a visual of the exhaust-making sure there is a cat under there, and a tail-pipe test. If you need to have those limits sent to you, let me know. ie CO, hydroC.

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[flash]

i agree - no point in doing it if it will only mean that next year you have to remove it

right now, it's only really crazy here in california, where you can be pulled over on the side of the road by the mobile test units - the way the law is now, you can register a car in certain zip codes where testing is not required, but that does not mean you can drive it outside that zip code - weird law - it was intended to allow farm vehicles, which would never leave home, to operate without testing - they will be tightening that law up soon

that is something that will be changing soon across the country too (slated for 2010) - the new standards will require output testing in any area that exceeds the air quality standard - this is mandated at the federal level, governed at the state level, and to be managed on an area by area basis, likely like it is in now in california where it is zip code by zip code - this will continue to get more and more strict as time goes on, particularly in urban areas, as the air quality gets worse

the good news is that it isn't too hard to get it approved, as long as it runs cleanly

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[Carl Fausett]

Thanks to all for your comments and interest. Much appreciated.

I am certainly not offended by the suggestion that the retail price of the finished kit has to remain as low as possible - I happen to agree with that.

After all - whether you love the 968 or not - it was only a limited-production-run auotmobile and is now discontinued. The market will not support a high-dollar kit if for no other reason than these alone, say nothing of the current economy.

My experience in developing multiple SC kits before this has honed our skills in-house and we can bring a product to market more efficiently now than say, 4 or 5 years ago. I will be drawing on all of that cost-and-time cutting knowledge for this challengine project.

Expect the finished results to look simple and obvious. In fact, if I do my job, the kit will not appear complicated at all. Simplicity keeps costs down.

I am going to try to avoid having to make a custom crankshaft pulley for this kit if I can - they add about $600 to each kit that requires them.

We will try to use the stock MAF and throttle body and manifold - that will keep costs down too.
We may have to supply 4 new larger injectors with each kit - we'll see.

I am more often in the shop than at my computer - so please post to this thread and be patient for my answer. I am not always sitting here.

If those links to our other Ferrari and Porsche kits did not work, just try this one:
http://www.928motorsports.com/superchargers.html

I think you will like the pictures.

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[rxter]

<!--quoteo(post=68387:date=Mar 12 2009, 07:39 AM:name=flash)-->QUOTE (flash @ Mar 12 2009, 07:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->i agree - no point in doing it if it will only mean that next year you have to remove it

right now, it's only really crazy here in california, where you can be pulled over on the side of the road by the mobile test units - the way the law is now, you can register a car in certain zip codes where testing is not required, but that does not mean you can drive it outside that zip code - weird law - it was intended to allow farm vehicles, which would never leave home, to operate without testing - they will be tightening that law up soon

that is something that will be changing soon across the country too (slated for 2010) - the new standards will require output testing in any area that exceeds the air quality standard - this is mandated at the federal level, governed at the state level, and to be managed on an area by area basis, likely like it is in now in california where it is zip code by zip code - this will continue to get more and more strict as time goes on, particularly in urban areas, as the air quality gets worse

the good news is that it isn't too hard to get it approved, as long as it runs cleanly<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


+1 - 50 state emissions compliant.

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[Ryan]

Have you looked under the hood of a 928? There is little if any room in there either. I think if he could fit one in there, he could fit the 968. But that is speculation.....

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[flash]

yeah - but also note where the 928 takes its air in - ours is in a rather odd spot with little room for more stuff without a wonderful little dent in the hood - i am hopeful, but i couldn't make it work with the unit i wanted to use - there was one that would fit, but it wouldn't flow enough

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[Sho968]

Carl,

I love your concept, and am interested in the development of this kit.

Thanks for picking such an oddball car as ours.

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[94nine68]

<!--quoteo(post=68414:date=Mar 12 2009, 01:33 PM:name=flash)-->QUOTE (flash @ Mar 12 2009, 01:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->yeah - but also note where the 928 takes its air in - ours is in a rather odd spot with little room for more stuff without a wonderful little dent in the hood - i am hopeful, but i couldn't make it work with the unit i wanted to use - there was one that would fit, but it wouldn't flow enough<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Its possible it would require 2 individual air intakes to allow eniugh air in, but keep the intakes small enough...

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[rhudeboye]

<!--quoteo(post=68476:date=Mar 13 2009, 09:24 AM:name=94nine68)-->QUOTE (94nine68 @ Mar 13 2009, 09:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Its possible it would require 2 individual air intakes to allow eniugh air in, but keep the intakes small enough...<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I think that's his point. Some don't like <b>any </b>cuts what so ever in the hood. Widening the opening in the front would probably be more appealing but the location doesn't work to feed the charger.

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[banditsc]

I'm sure they can figure out the intake, they have made some interesting air filter setups. The one in this pic is for a 5L so it out to be enough for our 3L.

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[flash]

i saw that a while ago - i don't want to start poking holes in a design i have not seen anything on, but based on the reactions of the engine on the roots system when we were playing around with air cleaner sizes, i don't think that is nearly big enough, but then i can't see what is on the other side either - at 5lbs boost, on our 3l engine, the air cleaner surface area minimum seems to be at least 125 sq in - anything less than that and the temps went up and the boost went down

but i'm sure they will consider all of that when figuring this out - this is what they do after all

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[banditsc]

Well that's for a 5L at 5lbs boost. I guess we will see what they come up with..

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[flash]

it was amazing to see how much better the car ran with the bigger air cleaner, or with no air cleaner at all - the small one really choked it down - it was like trying to suck a chocolate shake through a skinny coffee straw

anyway - we'll see what carl comes up with - this is pretty basic stuff, and i'm sure he won't skip over it

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