[Rap]

60 is amazing. Most must be neigh on unaffordable for us common folk!

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[ds968]

you have a PM

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[ds968]

yup a lot of ultra expensive ones, but some are quite affordable, actually. also while the majority are crazy fast, a few probably need that 500 hp just to get them rolling downhill at 20mph, lol .. ok, exaggerating, but there are one or two which I believe are not much faster than a stock 968

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[ds968]

interesting to read that the power of a 662 hp , 631 ft/lbs car is... uninspiring : http://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motoramic/2...39333.html

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[flash]

i've driven a lot of different cars with a lot of power, and how it is implemented is key to how it feels. cars today have much more sophisticated fuel and ignition systems, which deliver the power far more smoothly than previously, and more importantly, the transmissions have many more gears, and are much more progressive than before. a lot of the "rush" you used to get was the sensation of gravity shifting as you went through the gears, whether it was a manual trans or not. that is going away now with 7 and 8 speed gearboxes that are almost seamless.



a good example is the new mercedes c class 250. it's a turbocharged 4 cylinder with only a bit over 200hp, yet it accelerates like it has 350. the gearbox is the reason.



cars today are performing better, but are really losing something in driver excitement in the process.

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[tamathumper]

"It's like driving a computer!" - Ford Sync commercial.

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[ds968]

So now that 600 + hp is norm for Ferraris, and Lambos, and has become soooo passé even stock Mustangs come out with that much power, the competition is on to make 1000 hp the new norm for super cars. The Veyron's 1000 has already been passed by two other makers and Koenisegg will have its 1300 hp street car come out next year. Where will this go next...1500 HP ? 2000 HP ? ...and most importantly WHY ?

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[Cloud9...68]

I'm in the camp that this is just crazy. Where on earth, other than a track, can you begin to use that kind of power, especially as traffic keeps getting worse and worse in most urban and suburban areas?

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[Bulti]

And besides that, not too many people can handle a 1000 HP. The electronics of the car will restrain a bunch of the pony's anyway. Where's the honor in that?

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[ds968]

Was just talking to flash the other day about these new cars where the advanced technology enables incredible performance and yet amazing driving stability ; one example - the new MBZ E 63 AMG , a 4 door family sedan ( and I imagine it's not a lightweight car ) V8 twin turbo with 570HP and not sure how much torque but guessing over 500 as well, which has a published 3.5 sec 0-60 mph but in tests actually did that in 3.2 sec. The reviews also indicated the drive is as close to perfection as any car can get; flawless handling, stability, quiet, all around civilized. So perhaps the new 1000+ HP cars are not as uncontrollable as we imagine but again...why and where in the world can you use that much power ? I guess it's just a bragging rights thing for both manufacturers and the car owners.

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[flash]

big difference between 570 hp and 1000hp. traction control will be the key. not sure tires are keeping up with the power. suspensions and differentials are sure getting better though.

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[ds968]

Yeah, the new 1300 HP Koenisegg One:1 supposedly has a 2:1 weight / hp ratio , can't imagine what tires they put on that thing to hold up to the reported 275 mph top speed. Folks, this is a production car for the street ! Ok, probably not my street anytime soon and besides, it would really piss off the dude with the Ferrari F 40 who lives on it, lol..

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[Bulti]

Indeed, the TC will kill the power. Try to take off fast with that AMG without it and before you know you disappear in a cloud of smoke and that's it. No tire can hold such a brute force, only at top speed or in a very high gear anyway.



Sounds very cool at the bar though.

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[Cloud9...68]

In today's world of 'round-the-clock congested roads and strictly enforced speed limits, I agree with what Flash is saying that it's not the raw power, but the overall driving experience that really matters. Things like the exhaust note, the feedback through the steering wheel, the how the ride comfort/grip level trade-off is managed, the precision of the gear shift, how the power and torque are distributed through the usable rpm range, etc., are the things that count. Like several have said, peak horsepower numbers are only for bragging purposes.

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[wildcat]

There is practical and impractical and outrageous and .... I'm glad the industry is pushing the envelope... on the other hand I'm not sure I'd buy one... except maybe a Gallardo... horsepower without styling doesn't do much for me.

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[ds968]

As much as I enjoy the great and perfectly balanced driving experience the 968s give me ( especially with superchargers on both ) , one with a superior suspension, awesome exhaust note and the fun of a stick shift, while the other a super quiet ( post Dynamat and Dynapad install ) with an extremely comfortable stock suspension and the commute ease tne Tip provides but with enough power to still put a huge smile on my face, I'm starting to appreciate these luxury cars with phenomenal power at your foot a lot more than I ever have. However, 500-600 hp is plenty to provide the best of both worlds, not sure 1000 ponies adds much value to that unless all you want to do is pretty much race everyone else

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[wildcat]

O.K. but how many remember the Lancia Stratos, the Lotus Europa or the Lamborghini Muira for that matter not to mention the 968 with a 4 banger that would do 150 plus where horse-power was and still is in my opinion a relative thing... I remember when 11 seconds in the quarter mile on a motorcycle was fast but how does it take the curves? Sounds like you've got some nice examples of the 968 and maybe I'm just getting old but for the money I'd rather have a Stratos or a Muira any day.

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[Cloud9...68]

[quote name='wildcat' timestamp='1394320660' post='155806']

O.K. but how many remember the Lancia Stratos, the Lotus Europa or the Lamborghini Muira for that matter not to mention the 968 with a 4 banger that would do 150 plus where horse-power was and still is in my opinion a relative thing...

[/quote]

Hand raised here... Yeah, those were very wild cars in their day. But remember, they were featherweights compared to the beasts on the prowl these days, so much less horsepower was needed. The Miura was a work of art, and a fast car even by today's standards, but I'm not sure I'd want to live with a Stratos or a Europa!



Thanks to technology, everything has evolved - power output, handling, braking, all assisted by the electronics designed to keep all that horsepower from killing the driver. But this has come at the expense of driver involvement - witness the virtual disappearance of the manual transmission. The question is, where's the sweet spot, the era that produced cars with all the power you'd likely ever need, with a chassis capable of handling it, but without creating a feeling of "driving a computer"? I would say the mid- 90s to the mid 2000's. The 968 seems just outside the sweet spot (sorry, just not enough horsepower in stock form), but I would argue that a D1R supercharged 968 fits the bill almost perfectly. Others might include the 3rd gen RX7, the 993, the Ferrari F355/360, maybe the Lotus Elise, the Boxster S from that era, the Audi R8, and the later Acura NSX. I would take any of these over the modern archetypal ultra-performance car, the Nissan GTR.

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[wildcat]

You've put that all in a different light and food for thought. My personal experience with the "modern" enhanced technologies of which I somewhat question the merit is the Testarossa which is a very civilized car especially for its size, it doesn't balk on hard cornering and feels like it has power to spare though I never got a chance to push it very hard (relative to its capabilities) and I appreciate the concept you describe as "driving a computer" because it doesn't have the road feel of cars of earlier years. So in a way I may be regressing because my 968 was rather abused before I got it, and as I've been restoring I've made it feel somewhat more like the older cars... a little rough (stiff suspension), a little more tactile, and being a cab you've got the wind in your hair which is partly what a sports car is all about. None of the cars I mentioned had that criteria, and that in itself changes the equation. Its character is a little different too, as I've taken out the triangular resonator which in auto mode is a fairly tame animal, but in manual shift mode has a very nice purr. That's what you can do with a car that hasn't had the loving care that many of the cars here appear to have. That elusive "soft spot" is of course the "holy grail". And being a rag top owner (literally), its the combination that give it that "sports car" attitude. Hard Tops change the equation considerably... so the quest continues.

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[Rap]

As a guy that got into cars late in life the hp question and new technology observations about sports cars always catch my eye. I suspect that the vast majority of people who buy Porsches or other sports cars never really experience what it is truly like to drive their cars. Unless of course they track them. Hp for most is consumed by most in a straight line. Good for some not for others. Driving a 968 on the track not only gives you the sensation of exploring your cars capabilities but it is you actually driving the car. I won't get into the continuing coupe versus cab discussion as it relates to the definition of sports car. Flash no need to chime in! Lol.

Everyone looks for what they want in a sports car. I'm fortunate enough to have two of these and they drive differently because of the sc and <acronym title='Limited Slip Differential'>LSD</acronym>. Both are enjoyable to drive. Both drive differently on the track. The white one has been retired from the track but it was still a ball. Hp for hp's sake is well just a discussion because most of these cars are street driven. Would I like a car with a monster hp? Sure who wouldn't! But where would you explore the cars power? I live in the sticks and have tons of great roads to drive on. But just how fast can you drive a twisty safely? Would I buy a car with all the new technology. If I had the money and room to store it of course! Would I be satisfied with driving it , yes. Would I have as much fun driving it compared to the 968 or other older car? No. Driving this aged car leaves you with the feeling that you are driving the car. This is a value that hp and technology can't trump. In my most humble opinion!! Lol

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