[kwikt]

It's about due for a new timing and balance belt when I noticed a huge price difference in timing belts from $30 to $110(OEM). Is it worth it for OEM? What about the other brands like Conti? What do you guys prefer? Is there a brand NOT to buy? Thanks!



Kevin

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[flash]

gates is the best belt you can buy (and i have been told was the original specifying vendor) - goodyear is pretty good too - conti has had some known failures recently



contrary to popular myth, oem does not necessarily mean better - it only means that that particular order of belts was chosen as meeting the minimum specs, and the buyer for porsche got the best deal on them - automobile manufacturers continually change their vendors to meet changing needs (frequently cost)

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[apex]

[quote name='flash' post='45365' date='Jan 7 2008, 09:02 PM']gates is the best belt you can buy (and i have been told was the original specifying vendor) - goodyear is pretty good too - conti has had some known failures recently



contrary to popular myth, oem does not necessarily mean better - it only means that that particular order of belts was chosen as meeting the minimum specs, and the buyer for porsche got the best deal on them - automobile manufacturers continually change their vendors to meet changing needs (frequently cost)[/quote]



flash what's your preferred vendor for belts by gates?

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[Rutger Gert-jan]

I did four "belt-jobs"(944/944S/944 turbo S and 928 S4) and on all the cars I used Conti belts...never had a problem, I also use Conti belts to drive the power steering/AC comp. and the alternator.

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[PorscheDude]

I never had a problem with the Conti belts. I just put a conti last month.

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[flash]

apex - don't really have a preferred vendor - local napa shop, etc



pat - personally i had never had a problem with conti, and was frankly quite shocked, but the number of guys who had them, broke them, and were pretty pissed about damaged valves made me sit up and take notice - i'll try to pull together the list of guys that have had conti problems, though a quick search here should turn some of them up - there was a discussion not long ago about it

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[PorscheDude]

I will look into it. It's not a big deal to swap the belts. It gets easier everytime.

I think I may have a front end reseal coming up in the spring anyway. I noticed some weeping by the lower balance shaft when I did my belts.

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[flash]

i think pete has some more info on the conti belt thing too



there is a thread on rennlist about this very thing, and some i'll-informed or at least incomplete advise being handed out again



here are your choices:



1. you can buy the belt from the dealer, and be assured that it meets the MINIMUM standards specified for the belt - it may or may not be the original belt manufacturer - OEM does NOT mean original, regardless of the acronym - it only means it meets or exceeds the specs of the original, and is authorized by the vehicle manufacturer for use in a specific application - it's a safe bet, but not necessarily the best belt - it does give you the best legal recourse, if professionally installed



2. you can buy the cheapest belt out there, and take your chances



3. you can buy a belt from a known reputable manufacturer, and avail yourself of their warranty, though generally limited to the belt itself



4. you can buy the belt specced on the car originally, and presuming the belt manufacturer has not changed its process or materials, will have at least what was originally intended



in any case, the biggest factors are the installer, and the service of the belt - a car that is driven hard will stretch a belt faster than one that is not - a car that sits will wear a belt nearly as fast as one driven hard - the brand of belt may not have been the issue at all - incorrectly installed, failures are common - frankly there have not been enough failures to point the finger one way or the other on specific brands though



the pulley design is not the best, and the tensioning process is at least vague - this leads to potential issues, especially when exceeding the original output of the engine - add 30 or more hp to the engine, like by adding the rs barn header, chip, and the airbox mod, and then throw in a few hundred extra rpms, and it clearly adds load to the belts - who knows what the longevity is, or failure rate of any belt? a softer belt might do better - a stiffer belt might - only time will tell



in the end, i choose option 3 - it just happens to suit other options as well - in 30 years of doing this, i have NEVER had a premature failure of a gates belt in any application on any car - i've also not had any issues with goodyear - while i have not used a lot of conti belts, and the issue is pretty much a surprise, as i have not personally had any issues when i did use them, given the cost of guessing wrong, i'd steer the other way

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[Marky Boy]

Might as well add my points to this.



Gates made, and helped design the original 924-944 drive system. Dayco then made theOEM belt for the 944S2 - 968 as far as im aware. Gates retained the contract for the balance belt (twin power belt).



Save yourself the cash and just buy the Gates belts. As long as you by from a Gates approved vendor you will be fine. Problems arise from people buying countfeit goods and not knowing it, or fitting them wrong.



As for OEM quality. Gates make these belts for ContiTech, Quinton Hazel, Flendor etc... and the specs are all identical. Same materials, equipement, conditions, just different branding. This is the same for most cars.



The balance belts the you buy from Porsche are made by Gates on the same mould as Gates own brand.Just different print.



So just save yourself the cash and just buy the Gates stuff.



I know this as I was Manufacturing Engineer at Gates Dumfries, where these particular belts are made. And having a 968 paid carefull attention to these things.



Mark

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[Cloud9...68]

I read through each of these posts, waiting for the punchline, but never got it - Where exactly can you buy each of these types of belts (specifically Gates, which sounds like the consensus best choice, all things being equal).



I will be doing my belts soon, so I will be doing a lot of research, but right off the bat, what about the rollers? Same question as for the belts: who's the best manufacturer, and where is the best place to buy them?

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[flash]

i love that!



thanks mark!



cloud - you'll probably have to call around to your better parts stores

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[kwikt]

Checked around on the internet and seems the Gates belt sells for around $33 at Amazon.com. Better than $110 for dealer item. I am still debating between the Gates and the $30 belt that the various venders sell(conti etc.).Oh... according to Gates website, it recmmends replacing their belt at 45,000 miles. Believe it or NOT!



Kevin

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[flash]

i love seeing the RIGHT information get out there - how cool is this?

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[Marky Boy]

To find a local supplier just ring Gates sales and find your local stockist. They are the largest synchronous belt manufacturer in the world so there are plenty stockists.



Avoid buying belts from elsewhere, especially the net. There are lots of problems at the moment with counterfiet products coming from Eastern Europe, China and India that are sold as Gates. Returns used to come in from customers asking why their belt had failed. In many cases they looked like good belts, all the right Gates labels, packings etc... but were discovered to be fake on closer inspection.



Only ever buy from an approved stockist. You have been warned.



Gates helped to design the front engine drive system and I have spoken to one of the engineers that helped design it when i was changing my belts.



When the S2 came along the timing belt changed width and the contract went to Dayco, on cost grounds. Gates still make the wider belt and i am in no doubt that it is just as good as the Dayco one that Porsche sells as OEM.



So if you ask me i'd buy the Gates stuff, rather than 3x the price for the same product with a different label. In the end of the day if the belts are installed correctly they will all perform the same.



Mark

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[PorscheDude]

Thanks, great info Mark.



Welcome aboard!

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[Cloud9...68]

I just went to Gates' web site, and found that O'Reilly Auto Parts is an approved distributor, which is very convenient, as there is an O'Reilly just a few miles from my house. O'Reilly lists the timing belt, part # T152F, for a very reasonable $35.99. The balance shaft belt, part # T293F, is $57.99, which is also a good price, but it seems strange that the balance shaft belt is more than the timing belt. I can't remember which is longer, but the timing belt is under much more strain than the BS belt, so I would think it should be more rugged, and therefore more expensive. Does this make sense? Thanks.

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[flash]

probably due to production and sales numbers more than anything

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[Cloud9...68]

Could be. I replaced just my balance belt a couple of years ago (the one in the car, an incorrect narrow one, has sheared off a bunch of teeth and had slipped badly), and bought an "aftermarket" one from Paragon, and I remember it being very cheap, somewhere in the $20's.

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[Marky Boy]

[quote name='flash' post='46021' date='Jan 19 2008, 10:19 PM']probably due to production and sales numbers more than anything[/quote]



Thats exactly correct. The balance shaft belt is made in much smaller volumes. It as also a lot more labour instensive to produce the balance belts. Hence the higher price.

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