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Temp question
#1

My car was running a bit on the hot side yesterday while on the track, running about a quarter to 3/8 inch past the halfway mark, but still under the 3/4 mark. It wasn't in danger of overheating, but this was a little warmer than normal, which is closer to a hair over the half way mark. Moreover, typically while on the track, the needle will come back down, but it wasnt really moving much to the downside. As soon as I came off the track, however, the needle dropped to the 1/4 mark, which is very normal for this car. Air temps were not high at all, at 80 degrees, but I was pushing the car a bit more toward 6000 rpm as I had new tires on it. Both fans were working and there are no leaks, coolant level is fine.



Anybody have any thoughts?
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#2

Mine is around half between 1/2 and 3/4 in normal driving conditions ; close to 3/4 on the track ; my needle never drops to the 1/4 mark except when I turn the key <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/wink.png" class="smilie" alt="" />



So nothing to worrie abour from my perspective ...
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#3

RL,



What would concern me in your case is that it's behaving differently than before. Humans are very good at picking up on very subtle changes from what was the prior norm, and while it could just be the gauge, I wouldn't assume that. Mine did exactly the same thing - it NEVER went above the lower (8 oclock line) on even the hottest days on the street, and only barely above 8 oclock on the track. But then all of a sudden, it changed - 9 oclock became "the new normal" with excursions to the upper line at the track. I was advised to not worry about it, because our gauges tend to be unreliable, but when I was in the process of installing my RS Barn dual oil coolers as part of my track car build, I noticed the insulation on the fan wires was completely cut through, exposing the bare wires. I patched them all up. I haven't fired it up yet, but when I do, I suspect my hot running problem will be gone.



What happens when you turn the AC on (assuming you still have AC)? This is supposed to activate the high speed fan and bring the temps down, but in my case, the temp actually went UP noticeably when I turned on the AC, and I've heard several people say the same thing. Are you absolutely sure the fans are working correctly? These engines are pretty loud, so it isn't always easy to tell. After thoroughly checking the fan function, I'd get an IR temp gun and measure the temperatures of your hoses and report back, as there is a lot of experience here with what these temperatures should be. I understand Clark's Garage has a good cooling system troubleshooting guide. But basically, I would check every aspect of the cooling system out before concluding you problem is just a flaky temperature gauge. Good luck.
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#4

i am dealing with a car right now that was having cooling system issues. there were a LOT of things wrong.



only fan #2 was working, though it was running at both speeds.



there was no front apron or lower belly pan



dealing with that helped, but it would still get dramatically hotter if i jumped on it, and ran warmer than i thought it should overall, sitting at about 9:00 in 95 degree heat



as it turns out, when the fan relay got hot, the fans would cycle hi-low-hi-low every few seconds. swapping that out resolved that issue



now that i got it all nailed down, even in 100 degree heat, it runs barely over 8:00
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94 Midnight Metallic Blue Cab Porsche 968 w/deviating cashmere/black interior and WAY too many mods to list - thanks to eric for creating www.968forums.com



"It isn't nearly as expensive to do it right as it is to do it wrong."
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#5

I had the same thing going on. Check you fuses. (#10 for cooling fan 2, which comes on after a certain hot temp, around 10:00ish, and #15 for cooling fan 1, which is your all-time cooling fan.) My #15 was busted. spare was in the fuse box, problem solved!



Flash is awesome, thanks for the tidbit, mate!
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#6

[quote name='Cloud9...68' timestamp='1347715200' post='132785']

RL,



What would concern me in your case is that it's behaving differently than before. Humans are very good at picking up on very subtle changes from what was the prior norm, and while it could just be the gauge, I wouldn't assume that. Mine did exactly the same thing - it NEVER went above the lower (8 oclock line) on even the hottest days on the street, and only barely above 8 oclock on the track. But then all of a sudden, it changed - 9 oclock became "the new normal" with excursions to the upper line at the track. I was advised to not worry about it, because our gauges tend to be unreliable, but when I was in the process of installing my RS Barn dual oil coolers as part of my track car build, I noticed the insulation on the fan wires was completely cut through, exposing the bare wires. I patched them all up. I haven't fired it up yet, but when I do, I suspect my hot running problem will be gone.



What happens when you turn the AC on (assuming you still have AC)? This is supposed to activate the high speed fan and bring the temps down, but in my case, the temp actually went UP noticeably when I turned on the AC, and I've heard several people say the same thing. Are you absolutely sure the fans are working correctly? These engines are pretty loud, so it isn't always easy to tell. After thoroughly checking the fan function, I'd get an IR temp gun and measure the temperatures of your hoses and report back, as there is a lot of experience here with what these temperatures should be. I understand Clark's Garage has a good cooling system troubleshooting guide. But basically, I would check every aspect of the cooling system out before concluding you problem is just a flaky temperature gauge. Good luck.

[/quote]



I think clarks trouble guide says , they should kick in on low when you hit the ac button , only when the compressor is engaged it should go to high .



I did all the tests everything works fine , exept mine does not kick into high when the compressor engages , found that out yesterday .

I had slightly higher temp than normal with the AC on only when temperatures are above 85 degrees , wich is only a couple weeks of the year here in Dutch land .

Because of the SC instal , i checked thermostat etc , and put low temp switch in the radiator .

Seems i need a new FAN relay after all .

Just not a 100% sure if it should go to high whe the compressor kicks in , even clarks trouble guide says so , could someone confirm the switching to high with AC on and compressor kicking in ?



And could there b a difference between a early R12 and later R134 car ?



There is a note , it should kick in high by the pressure switch in the AC system , so that could be it a faulty pressure switch , i thought it only sensed high and low , so it switches off to save you compressor and system .



Crap end up with more questions than anwsers .
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#7

Both fans are working. didnt realize the fans had high and low speeds. how do i tell if both speeds on both fans are working?. am i misnderstanding something? thx
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#8

Pressure switch AC has 3 different switching pressures according workshop manual 2.0 - 3.0 Bar Low pressure

19-15.5 Bar Fan's switch to High ? ( my guess)

23 - 30 Bar Presure High
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#9

They do have 2 speeds , switched thru the radiator switch and or by the AC system , to different things



But read download the manaul for the fan's at http://www.clarks-garage.com/





My problem is solved , yes it switches to high when compressor engages and builds up pressure .



An mine does not , my pressure switch is faulty , i jumped the 2 and 4 wire conected to the pressure switch located on top the filter dryer unit , and the fans kick in to high .



Mystery solved for me , ordering a new pressure switch .
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#10

[quote name='flash' timestamp='1347716142' post='132788']

now that i got it all nailed down, even in 100 degree heat, it runs barely over 8:00

[/quote]

I think this is the key take-away. There are a lot of things that can go wrong with these (and any car's) cooling systems, but when working properly, the gauge should almost never get above the 8 o'clock line. If it does, something is wrong.



Interesting about the AC pressure switch. I didn't know about that.
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#11

[quote name='Cloud9...68' timestamp='1347725812' post='132798']

I think this is the key take-away. There are a lot of things that can go wrong with these (and any car's) cooling systems, but when working properly, the gauge should almost never get above the 8 o'clock line. If it does, something is wrong.



Interesting about the AC pressure switch. I didn't know about that.

[/quote]

Same here , i came from the 944 type one they don't kick the fans in until just before redline , so never took a good look at the 968 fan's since they did about the same thing .

So found out a some time ago that it was not normal for the 968 , mine only kicked in at high speed and high temp , put a new sensor in the radiator and thought that i nailed it .

Then i had a little higher temps on hot days with AC on , and actually one time it did not switch on at all , but i turned it off en a few minutes later on again no problem cooled perfect and kept on doing that .

Looking back now , think that the highpressure circuit closed because off the temp and so the presure in the system went to high , after shutting down for a few minutes while driving . sytem pressure droped enough to alow peration again .

After the SC install ,checking the whole system and reading the trouble shoot file i have (not clark's and don't know where i got it but it's for the 968 maybe UK ) again , 1 and 1 put together , i found that the pressure switch did not operate 100% , high and low good , but in the middle when the compressor starts building up pressure , it should go to high , so pressure stays within limits and it accordingly wil blow a bit colder as well .



If anyone needs the file send me your @mail .



Great this forum .
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#12

yeah - i'm now screwing with the AC. not sure yet what's going on with that. new compressor, but not cold air. charge was low. juiced it up. blew 48 degrees after that, for about a half hour.



kicks on and off now over and over, and does not blow cold. pressure may be too high, though gauge shows low on low side. i don't have a high side gauge. probably going to let some out the high side and see what happens.
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94 Midnight Metallic Blue Cab Porsche 968 w/deviating cashmere/black interior and WAY too many mods to list - thanks to eric for creating www.968forums.com



"It isn't nearly as expensive to do it right as it is to do it wrong."
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#13

[quote name='flash' timestamp='1347730909' post='132804']

yeah - i'm now screwing with the AC. not sure yet what's going on with that. new compressor, but not cold air. charge was low. juiced it up. blew 48 degrees after that, for about a half hour.



kicks on and off now over and over, and does not blow cold. pressure may be too high, though gauge shows low on low side. i don't have a high side gauge. probably going to let some out the high side and see what happens.

[/quote]





Did you empty the system before charging ? or did you add refrigerant ?

First thing wich comes to mind reading your post is , pressure is getting to high , as far as i understand the right way to fill the system is by adding the right weight of refrigerant , and not by looking at the presure high and low , the refrigirant its pressure', is dependant on temperature , wich is difficult to get right because of the different temperatures thru the system , it is an indication but not as accurate as adding the right weight of refrigerant .

My guess you know all of this <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/icon_lol1.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/icon_lol1.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />
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#14

the DIY kits have a gauge that you can set for ambient temp. the problem is that only works on the low side, and not the high side. i think the pressure is too high on the high side, even though it still shows low on the refrigerant on the low side.



every tech i know says you have to monitor both and balance them
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94 Midnight Metallic Blue Cab Porsche 968 w/deviating cashmere/black interior and WAY too many mods to list - thanks to eric for creating www.968forums.com



"It isn't nearly as expensive to do it right as it is to do it wrong."
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