[Kunz]

Hi there!



Long time not seen...

I thought I might give an update of the SFR SC instal on my 968 CS. Unfortunatelly my specialist could not start work until today due to 2 of his mechanics are "out of duty". So now I took a look at how things are going on.



The installation is not as easy as you could expect from a kit (Hi Flash!) because the bracket does not fit like it should. Means the SC would contact the intakte manifold or the chassis if the inlet pipe should fit; and sur it should. So we will do some work on the bracket and this will fix it...



Also I will not instal the IC right behind the bumper like they do it at SFR but further back in front of the water cooler. The steup is not exactly like the one we all saw from 9M but more in this direction. This means that we will cut the IC's inlet and turn it 90° to make the piping as straight as possible. Like that the IC is in a better and saver place. But some bodywork has to be done; the rear part of the front chassis travers has to be cut out and we have to remodel that...



I decided to first run the car with stock header and cat plus my own catback exhaust; as soon as it will run!



Unfortunatelly I was not able to take some pics but maybe will be. I any case I will keep you informed on the project's progress.



After all I still would like to give you an impression on how the garage of my specialist and a friend of mine looks like. Even though most of you might not read german you still can take a look at the pics...



http://www.fmtporsche.ch/



Kunz

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[flash]

lol - i'm not getting into the misfitting issues - i see that too often



in locating the intercooler, i suggest keeping it away from the radiator - it transmits heat and raises the incoming temp of the air the radiator uses to keep the engine cool - if, for example, the ambient air outside is 70 degrees, but the air on the back side of the intercooler is 120 degrees, the radiator is seeing air that is starting at 120 degrees - this will generally make the engine run about 30 degrees hotter, due to the efficiency limitation of the radiator - it will be more if it is hotter outside, and you get closer to the limitations of the system



also, if you absolutely must put it in front of the radiator, you are correct in not leaving a large gap between the radiator and the intercooler - this creates a low pressure zone in front of the radiator, which prevents the maximum amount of air from going through the radiator



also, make sure your air cleaner is big enough - if you are increasing the airflow to the engine 50%, you need an air cleaner that is at least 50% larger than stock - measure the surface area - small cone filters won't do it - this may require rerouting of the inlet and outlet lines of the intercooler to create room for the air cleaner



i am just about to correct these very problems on a supercharged car - pretty basic stuff, yet somebody wasn't thinking it all the way through when they laid it out

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[Kunz]

Hi there!



As told I post some pics here of the instal of the SFR SC-Kit:



First you see the old intake and the new snorkel.



Then there ist the modified IC with 90°-turned outlet and the optimiced piping and our own brackets to hold the IC. Nice, arent they!



As we place the IC differently we had to modify the front chassis traverse which of course will be painted blue in the end.



Also I told you about the SFR-bracket that wouldnt fit, so here you see the modified bracket. After everything is finished we will fix-drill-srew that in this position. Also you see how little room there is left between charger and Chassis / trottle body.



So that's it for the moment.



To be continued...

Kunz

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[PorscheDude]

Nice work!

I like the new snorkel.

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[jlm968]

Nice to see this project coming along.

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[jeffski1]

Bravo Kunz. I really like your pictures and the work you are doing. I have a supercharged 968 as well, however, mine has an Eaton M90 roots type supercharger. It has been an ongoing project for over 4 years, but I am happy with the car and happy to keep trying to improve upon it. Recently, I met up with Flash and some of the advise he wrote about above comes from the installation mistakes he observed on my car. For instance, when the intercooler was installed (by SFR none the less), noboby thought about airflow through the radiator. They left a tapering 1" to 4" gap between it and the ac heat exchanger, which is about an inch infront of the radiator. Here's a quick picture of the poor install.



   



Here you can see the bottom of the IC on the left, sloping further up to the left, then the thin A/C heat exchanger, and then the radiator (well...the bottom supporting bracket). Notice the small gap Porsche leaves between the A/CHE and the Radiator? Maybe an inch. This close proximity allows the air to maintain its velocity through to the Radiator. The result of my install is very poor airflow. That HUGE pocket behind the IC causes the air to swirl around, trapping the air, killing flow. Duh. The swirlling air creates a barrier to air flow. It took Flash two seconds to point that out, while three "expert" shops missed it completely. Especially frustrating because I was having over temping issues early on and every one of the experts just scratched their heads, eventually talking me into buying a new radiator. Oh well. It is a better unit, but was probably unnecessary with a proper IC install.



In talking with Flash, I think I would like to explore mounting a 951 IC in the location used by the 951/968 turbo, up and away from the radiator. Flash was telling me our cars already have the mounting brackets in place for it. My system doesn't run a lot of boost, maybe 6.5psi at most, so I don't think I need as much cooling as my current IC provides. In fact, I may even remove the IC all together, but that's a different story.



The second issue with my IC location is that what air does flow through to the radiator is quite a bit warmer then the ambient air, passing first through the IC, then the A/C Heat Exchanger (and I use my A/C as I've lived in Phoenix and now LA), then finally to the Radiator. Consequently, my car always runs near the 10 o'clock mark on the temp gauge. Not necessarily bad, but certainly warmer then normal.



Well, like I said, it's still a work in progress. And I love it. Best of luck on your project.

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[PorscheDude]

Jeff,

I would like to see more pics and information on your set up.

Perhaps you could start a new thread?



BTW welcome!

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[jeffski1]

smokiemon968, thank you for the welcome.



I have been an on and off again 'lurker' here since the beginnig and even back to the 968.net days. I always wanted to start a post on my car, but never seemed to find the time. I am back again, and I think I shall have to start one. Hopefully with a little help from Flash, who saw my car for the first time last week. As I said, the car is a work in progress and he has some good ideas on how to improve on what's been done so far and how to fix some of the past mistakes. Stay tuned.

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[biotechee]

Kunz-



Looking good sir! We are certainly interested!



Jeffski-



Welcome and definitely start a thread!

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[Kunz]

Thanks for the positiv reactions!



Jeff:

Wellcome and thanks for your info!

This is one of the reasons I didnt want the IC where SFR placed it to. I sure know mine is closer to the radiator and therefor maybe a little heat tranfer might occur (as long as I dont drive). But on the other hand the IC is saver there, there is no "rambox" behind it and the flow of the cooling air might be better like this. I will also keep the under cover from the bumper / spoiler to the chassis which will force the air to flow trough the radiator and not find it's way out under the car befor that. Further my 968 CS has no AC...

I also thought about not using an IC as the SFR-kit will only blow some 7Psy @ 7000rpm. So a properly tuned Waterinjection could easily do that as well (Aquamist progressiv system). But as the "shop" is a real specialist, I am not afraid it will all work out nicely!



So long!

Kunz

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[xrad]

great pics guys and nice work...keep them coming! Helps me figue out intercooler install.

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[jeffski1]

Prior to installing the IC, I tried the Aquamist water injection system. Unfortunately, it didn't do much for my problems at the time, mainly detonation. However, I am not discounting the system as I am sure there were other contributing factors. As of now, it is disconnected, however, I look forward to bringing it back into the equation. Very possible if I delete the IC all together.

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[Anchorman]

Particularly intriguing is that you are supercharged AND retained the A/C. Inquiring minds definitely want to know more!

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[Kunz]

Hi all!



I have a little update of the ongoing project:



First you can now see the modified and instaled bracket with the SC and the belt. Also the "Umlenkrolle" had to be placed differently.



Then there is the installed snorkel taking the air behind the opened bumper. See also the nice bracket to hold the MAF in place.



Take an eye full of the now painted front chassis traverse with the instaled brackets to hold the IC; very nice I think!



Even though it is not time jet to fix it I put the IC in is place...



Finally I took some pics of my homemade catback for those who asked for these...



I am extremly glad the project is going on like this. The quality my specialist is working on it is just great! I am a bit sad I have to deal more with patients in these days than rather not only help with ideas but real work...



Till soon!

Kunz



Edit:

Sorry, something went wrong with the attached pics; first is las or so, but you can see it nevertehless!

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[flash]

ooh - can yo snap a shot just a bit farther forward, showing the cat on the header, and how it fits in the car? - i am just about to put the factory cat back in, and would love to just go to school on somebody else

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[Kunz]

Flash:

Probably next week I will take some more pics of the progress, whenever possible I will also take some of the header and cat. Remember that I have and keep stock header and cat...



Regards, Kunz

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[flash]

you sent me a shot of the oem cat fitted to an after market header, but laying on the ground - i just wanted to see that in the car - seeing the angles and such installed in another car will help me in the installation in my car

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[Kunz]

To go shortly out of topic; Flash:

Unfortunatelly I have no pic of that setup in the car and probably wont use ti again even it generated good torque down the revs. But to explain, you dont have to many possebilities left to do it. The cat stays right where it is in the stock system, same angle, same rotation, using the same hangers. So to the back it can be connected to whatever catback (stock or aftermarket) and to the front you just cut it where the RSbarn header DP and the stock catpipe will meet and fit. You then cut bouth, weld them together or use flanges to connect.

Be prepared to loose some torque down the revs...

I will take some pisc of the parts as soon as possible, so you kan see, where about to cut...

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[flash]

lose torque by reinstalling the oem cat? - i should gain torque - as i go larger and larger on cats, i gain torque

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[Kunz]

...on my Evo MR VIII I have better spool up the more volume I have befor the cat (big DP) or the less restrictiv the cat is (100-cell or none). With my 968 I made the experiance going from stock to 2x200cells in a row and then to 1x100cells - all in the stock shell - that torque between 2000-3200rp dramaticly increased while for maximum performance the 2x200 were best. Using a good catback the stock cat is not bad at all. It is also a metal-cat which for a car at this age is everything than normal.

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