[flash]

lol - it's a lot worse with the factory disk than the spring center disk - i am very pleased with the reduction in rattle - it used to make me crazy - it's still there a bit, but only on decel, only within 200 rpm of 2200, and i have not heard it other than 3rd to 2nd, but the thing is that i really have to want to make it happen - any touch of the throttle whatsoever, up or down, and it goes away - it used to be this long rattling decel process - now, it is more of a blip



i can live with it now



it does occasionally rattle a touch at idle, in neutral only, but also not as bad as it used to

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[Cloud9...68]

Makes me wonder - why would anybody keep the solid disk with a lightweight flywheel? For those of you who have this combination, was it because the spring-centered disk wasn't available when you installed your lightweight flywheel, or was it a conscious decision? I can't be sure, but it seems like some people have gone with the light flywheel/solid disk combination since the introduction of Flash/RS Barn's spring centered disk. If that's really the case (and I may well be mistaken about this), I'm curious as to why you went this route, given the increased rattle. Thanks.

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[flash]

yeah - the spring centered disk wasn't available until i designed it - before that, the oem disk was the only option



the flywheel came out a good while before the disk though, so there were some people who put in the solid disk on the new flywheel

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[Scott Collins]

[quote name='mrmister' date='Jun 26 2008, 05:14 PM' post='55455']

ok 2 week update. Now I have actually driven a bit with the clutch.



I don't know if I am an idiot or what......but I can't get a smooth start with this setup. Is there a break in period? I never get a good smooth engagement from a standing start. Slowly moving start, no problem. Once in gear and moving, no problem. Also the lag off the line is still there. Not sure why I didn't feel it 2 weeks ago.



MrMister-



I don't have this mod, yet, but I can say from experience that replacing motor mounts helped me get a much smoother standing start. With blown mounts, all she wanted to do was buck. This might or might not be at play in your car, but it's worth a mention if you have one or both mounts that have leaked out their fluid.



Cheers!



-Scott

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[xrad]

I'm not clear on this: do aftermarket flywheels eliminate the OEM rubber centering /shock isolator piece (which I hear degrades over time, but I have never seen one)????



anyone have a pic of this piece?

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[flash]

yes - the aftermarket flywheels delete the dampening mechanism of the DMF - that is why we came up with the spring centered clutch disk - it adds back in some of that damping



scott - i presume all of the components were new, thereby eliminating deposits on the surfaces that would cause chatter, just as they would on brakes - i also presume you did not skip the very important step of balancing the entire assembly



you will need to raise the rpm level a couple hundred rpm over what you would with a DMF, before releasing the pedal, and do no delay on throttle - this is a performance mod to be sure, and if your feet aren't terribly sensitive, you may have issues - my better half still can't get it,and her take offs are herky jerky - she still thinks of the clutch and throttle engagements as two separate actions, and in reality they need to overlap



if you could describe what is happening in more detail, i might be able to figure out what is going on

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[mattipuh]

Matti.



"- if I get cold start, there's hardly any rattle (this is normal)

- when tranny warms up, the rattle gets worse. It's biggest when decelerating from 2500rpm to 2000rpm.

- my rattle does not come from clutch or flywheel, but from tranny. "



Thats exactly what happens when you fit a lightweight flywheel and a standard clutch disc..

Ive just done the same + get exactly the same result / noise...

It can be a bit unnerving at first, but youve just got to live with it...

The price of mods + performance....



I have the whole setup from RSBarn, Spring Centered clutch, Pressure plate + flywheel.

I'm thinking that the mounts of tranny + motor might be worn out, which would then give some extra play into system, and thus cause extra noise. but generally just guessing.

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[mattipuh]

could one problem sympton be that my engine and tranny mounts are bad, which makes the driveline play possibly little larger, which then increases the loudenss in tranny when idling? The problem was partly already there when I had normal flywheel, but now it has gotten worse when I have the Lightweight flywheel. I red a post from rennlist that bad engine & transaxle mounts would make it possible to misalign the torguetube, which then causes louder noise in transaxle.



maybe wrong topic to discuss this problem here - is there topic where there has been discussed the tranny / enginemount problems, what effect do they have for car, etc.?



btw, mine tranny makes this rattling noise with all gears, not only with 2nd and 3rd as Flash said.

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[flash]

this is going to sound like a vendor pointing the finger somewhere else, but this is the only car to do this, so i tend to think that this sounds like a bigger problem for sure - after hearing a number of cars with the fidanza, and from the responses on the new rs barn flywheel, both flywheels with solid disks, and now both flywheels with spring centered disks, the rattle has been consistent in all of them, dependent on setup



the only difference i have heard of has been related to fluid in the transaxle - different fluids result in different amounts of noise - the one i have now shifts great, but makes a bit more noise - i tried a few different types and opted for this one, rather than one that was a bit quieter



these cars are weird about noises too - they travel down the car a LOT more than in a traditional layout - this is because of the torque tube - it is a direct connection front to back - i have heard exhaust shields rattling up front sound like it was in the rear - the shield in the middle is frequently problematic



as to the motor mounts and such contributing to he problem, yes, they can, because they put the drive train in a different location where things can be making contact



i would get the car in the air and measure your mounts - the gap should be no less than 63mm, and really should be closer to 70mm



then look at all shields - flick them, bang on them, wiggle them - look for any buzzes



do you feel anything in the shifter? if so, the torque tube bearings could be the culprit



if none of that turns it up, you may have problems in the transaxle - how fresh is the box?

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[mattipuh]

do you feel anything in the shifter? if so, the torque tube bearings could be the culprit

if none of that turns it up, you may have problems in the transaxle - how fresh is the box?



Thanks for your input again, Flash!

Yeah, the shifter moves with the same frequency as the sound and the jerkiness of the car. This made me think that the tranny is moving too much, in a first place. Dunno if the mileage of the car is correct, but currently there's 130tkm in the dashb, which equals app. 81000miles.



too bad the car was already at the shop twice with the tranny off.. but getting the problem areas fixed with one visit is not always possible. I think I'll go and purchase equip. to start doing the inspections by myself - among the saved cash, it's the best way to learn to maintain the car anyways.



[quote name='matti' post='57354' date='Aug 5 2008, 03:14 PM']do you feel anything in the shifter? if so, the torque tube bearings could be the culprit

if none of that turns it up, you may have problems in the transaxle - how fresh is the box?



Thanks for your input again, Flash!

Yeah, the shifter moves with the same frequency as the tranny makes its sound and the jerkiness of the car from driveline. This made me think that the tranny is moving too much, in a first place. Dunno if the mileage of the car is correct, but currently there's 130tkm in the dashb, which equals app. 81000miles.



too bad the car was already at the shop twice with the tranny off.. but getting the problem areas fixed with one visit is not always possible. I think I'll go and purchase equip. to start doing the inspections by myself - among the saved cash, it's the best way to learn to maintain the car anyways.[/quote]

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[xrad]

thanks for the explanation on the rubber isolator.

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[flash]

yeah - i understand that one - very early on, i spent a small fortune tracking down the rattle, only to find out it was a "normal" consequence of a solid flywheel and oem disk - i rebuilt the transaxle twice, replacing every bearing in it, as well as doing the torque tube - that was good for $6500



i would definitely start with the simple, and see if i could find a suspect, before dropping that box - at that mileage, unless the box has been abused, it isn't as obvious a suspect - but, it is enough to have worn bearings and it could be making the noises - the cost though would direct me to look at the other things first, and that would be a last step



i would drain the fluid though and look for metal bits - shiny flecks will tell you that your box needs to be done



if it makes you feel any better, we discovered a particular type of flywheel/pressure plate/clutch disk combination that does not work well, and as a result, i get to yank it out of there AGAIN, making this the 4th clutch job in 3 years on my car, trying to sort out the rattle issue



between those items, and development costs of the new parts, that will make the total investment into this particular "problem" somewhere a dizzying $20k or so

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[mattipuh]

replacing MAF to new one reduced constant speed jerkiness from engine quite alot, so now this LWFW rattle is lesser issue. before this upgrade it was really annoying with rattle to live with. so, if your engine is judderious on constant speeds, new Maf might help.

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