[flash]

just a note - smaller electrodes are one of the things that result in increased performance

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[Etnier]

A week or so after having done the Run-Rite cleaning I am very happy with the way everything is working now. There was a bit of a problem of random unexpected hesitations for a few days after the treatment: I can only assume that junk was working its way through the system. That has stopped now, and the hesitation problem is fixed. It's clear that the Stage 2 mods require an engine in good condition and that higher-mileage vehicles may need some inexpensive addtional maintenance (maintenance they would have benefited from anyways).



Do it!

<img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/biggrin.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/biggrin.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/biggrin.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />



PS: Vacuum tested just fine, and the full-throttle noise was diagnosed by my mechanics as normal.

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[Etnier]

I am heading in for some dyno pulls tomorrow AM and will report back here.

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[Nenehubert]

[quote name='Etnier' date='May 25 2006, 01:06 PM']I am heading in for some dyno pulls tomorrow AM and will report back here.

[right][post="21704"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]



Ohhhhhh....I'm Excited!!!! <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/laugh.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/laugh.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[ether_joe]

Thanks for the heads up on Run-Rite. . . I will have to get it done myself. Just about to crack 82K.

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[Etnier]

Here's the best run:









This after Run-Rite induction cleaning, new NGK Iridium plugs, 02 sensor and ignition wires



222 engine HP assuming a 15% loss.



Comments?.

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[flash]

pretty odd upper end falloff - at 6k it pretty much falls down



i don't know anything about that dyno, and don't have the "before" chart, so i can't comment on the numbers, but only the curves

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[Etnier]

I didn't run a before dyno, sadly.

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[mrayner]

I just had a local service centre run the three-step Run Rite fuel system cleaner through my 92 Coupe. http://www.run-rite.com/industry/products01a.htm



I am in Canada and went to a local Mr. Lube for the service. It cost me $89 CDN. I recommend this product. Right away the car sounds better (idle and while accelerating). It feels more responsive, although I will not push the car hard until the fuel additive has run through.



Some interesting notes:

When running the induction cleaner through, the service technician used a clamp to hold the RPMs at 2k. At the end of the cleaning the RPMs had increased by 300rpm! Cool.



The temp gauge went up to just before 10 o-clock (a little higher then the mid point temp). It started at the bottom indictor (~8 o’clock, warmed up). Needless to say the engine got hot during the induction cleaning.

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[Etnier]

Months after having done this work I would not do it again. The dyno curves show a very sad dropoff in performance over 5K, and the overall numbers are unimpressive. I have a choice of two local shops here: they both are extremely skeptical about aftermarket work and are both urging me to pull the exhaust system. I have done everything RS has urged on me: I have replaced plugs, cap/rotor, ignition wires, 02 sensor and checked vacuum, which is fine. I have my two trusted shops telling me this is bogus, and my only real option is booking a hotel in Philadelphia and living there while the car is examined and subjected to the repairs RS feels appropriate: my guys say they've done all they can. The car no longer starts cold, BTW. Has to be started twice.



Sorry: this thread was resurrected at a bad time for me, but I feel I've exhausted all reasonable remedies and have a car that does not dyno well at all. I just don't have the resources to dump into trying to find out what's wrong with a car when two sets of mechanics tell me it's doing just fine except for the aftermarket mods.

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[Mark]

Sorry to hear it's not working out. Have they run any other 968s on that Dyno? If so how does it compare? I have heard Dynomite dynos read a lower than others (kind of like a Mustang and I would be very happy with those numbers from a Mustang). Obviously the drop off is not good no matter what but I would want to see a stock 968 pull at the same time.

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[Bob Kovacs]

I dyno'd my car in November before and after a chip swap (ProMax chip). It was done on a Mustang MD1570 dyno and the after numbers were 202.3 hp and 184.7 ft-lbs of torque. Both were 11.5 gains over the stock chip. I do not have the airbox mod, which should give the numbers another bump.



Your numbers don't sound that far out of line with mine and I'd be pleased to have your torque numbers. I do not have all the new/aftermarket stuff in my car and it could, in fact, use a tune up. Even still, my car feels strong to me, even if I have no experience driving another 968.



--Bob

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[flash]

john - this really sucks, and i wish i was there to try to help



without a "before" chart, i don't know how the mechanics are determining that everything else is "doing fine" - your results are certainly atypical - what have they done to verify the engine? i presume they have pulled the covers and verified timing - i would not automatically assume that a problem was not coincidental to this work - a lot of people make the mistake of saying "it was fine before, so it must be this stuff" - unfortunately, engines just don't work that way all the time - other stuff can fail as you are doing something



i'd make sure that the basics are done:



verify compression

verify timing

verify ignition

verify fuel



if that is all done, basically though, it looks like your options are:



1. return car to stock and verify running condition

2. drop car at pete's, take train home, and have him sort it out



very sorry to hear about the problems though - good luck

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[RS Barn]

John,

Lots of stuff to talk about. Some I will mention here and others I will only mention on a phone call. BTW my phone still works and I haven't heard from you since your Run Rite treatment and you seemed quite pleased other than 2000 full throttle lag.

1. It seems you may have a problem that is either ongoing or developing.

2. Cold starting is affected by holes in airbox. Sometimes they do require a second startup. There is a lag when the IAC valve kicks in to stabalize idle.

3. Your dyno chart tells gives some info that follows norm and some that doesn't.

The chip you're using should have an AFR of 12.8 from 2K on up. Yours doesn't but that most likely is the method of checking AFR. Unless they use a very special O2 on the bung on header the results will show as yours lean, until the rpms are up.

AFR from 4K up on yours is where it should be. Power isn't. It should pull all the way to 6500.

What is wrong? I don't know but it isn't the aftermarket stuff. It works great on too many cars.

Ohter than basics I do have some ideas for you and certainly can help.

Pete

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