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rear hatch switch/wiring
#1

My hatch opens nicely when I use the cabin button, but not the rear key. The wiring back there gets very hot when the switch is activated.


So, I changed the micro switch for a new one. It still happens! Must be a short in there. 

I'm thinking it must therefore be between the micro switch and the motor assembly, since the button works normally.


Is this a common problem and am I on the right track? 

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#2

that sounds quite possible, all the wires for the rear lock run round the drivers side at the rear of the car, close inspection is your only option

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#3

The button on mine works normally, but if I try to use the key, it pops the fuse.      I do have another button assembly I'm going to try and swap out to isolate the issue further, otherwise, I'll be doing a closer inspection on the microswitch in the hatch (appeared to be operating fine when I examined it, but have not replaced it).     Just wondering if it could still be something in the button assembly even though the button itself works normally.   In my case, the button release didn't work either when I bought the car, but disassembling/cleaning/reassembling the button release seemed to fix that issue.
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#4

Hi Guys, I had the same problem.  The electrical routing is a little obscure on this, as the feed comes through the foot-well button to the rear of the car and then back.  I posted my trouble shooting on "Key won't open trunk" in Jan/Feb of this year.  You may have a wiring problem or it may be the connectors inside the motor. Hope it helps ....
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#5

anyone get this resolved besides Roboman?

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#6

Hi Snova, I looked back at your post on "Key won't open trunk" and see that your trunk used to open from the footwell switch. I'm assuming that my instructions were either inaccurate, or incorrect for your coupé as opposed to my cab. I can't help you investigate your wiring, but we can eliminate some components.....


The motor should rotate once and then repark itself, so when you press the footwell button you should hear the motor rotate for the same amount of time whether you give the button a short press or a long press, and the rotating arm should end up in the same place each time. Try it a few times, the noise and rotation should be entirely repeatable.


I suggest you open the trunk and have a look at the position of the rotor arm.

Then go back to the footwell and sort of jab your finger on the release button ... Not so quick/short as it wouldn't have worked in any case, but quicker/shorter than a normal press.


If the motor operates for that same period of time experienced earlier, and the rotor arm always lands in the same spot (give or take a few degrees), then the inside of your motor should be okay.


If the length of time the motor drives seems to reflect the length of time your finger is on the button, and the rotor arm stops at random angles, then the problem is in your motor.....


So you can test/eliminate the motor without removing anything, it'll take just a few minutes.


If it is the motor then it is most likely the spring wiper has moved off the plastic parking ring. ... Gently open the motor, beware of old plastic, clean the insides, gently bend the inner and outer wipers sideways so they sit above the plastic. Actually you should also inspect the "parking place" on the inner ring to ensure it is free from any debris that might conduct....then reassemble.


Test first from the footwell, and if that now gives a repeatable noise/rotation, then your key should now also work.


Good luck.
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#7

HI Roboman,

 

I did a standalone test of my new microswitch to better understand how it works.  IIRC there are the wires on the connectors.  A Brown (chassis ground I assume), a red (positive I assume), and a while with blue stripe.   When the switch is open,  there is continuity between Brown and White with blue stripe.

When I hold down the switch, There is continuity between Red and white w/ blue stripe.  OK.. fine.

 

So then I test the connector on the car for which the microswitch is attached.   There is continuity between Red, Brown and White/w blue stripe.  I'm thinking the RED one is shorted.  These don't seem to run to the hatch motor.  I'll need to track it further.   If you know where it ends up let me know.  

 

I don't know why it goes to the front of the car when the motor is only 0.7 meters away. 

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#8

Quote:HI Roboman,

 

I don't know why it goes to the front of the car when the motor is only 0.7 meters away. 
 

Hi Snova, the wiring does do this, the footwell switch is used to direct the live feed, so the wire goes to the front, through the footwell switch, and then returns to the trunk.

 

Did you test the motor?  It is very possible that the short you are experiencing is happening inside the motor housing.  Just take 5 minutes to test as I suggest above so you can confirm that the contacts inside the motor either are or are not the problem .... 

 

I have a few things to do but shall return to this post after an hour or so.

 

Cheers
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#9

Quote: 

Hi Snova, the wiring does do this, the footwell switch is used to direct the live feed, so the wire goes to the front, through the footwell switch, and then returns to the trunk.

 

Did you test the motor?  It is very possible that the short you are experiencing is happening inside the motor housing.  Just take 5 minutes to test as I suggest above so you can confirm that the contacts inside the motor either are or are not the problem .... 

 

I have a few things to do but shall return to this post after an hour or so.

 

Cheers
I disconnected the connector on the motor when I did my test.  
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#10

Okay, so the motor may still be a problem, but maybe you have something else as well.

 

Starting at F/G 34     +12v splits in three at 190....

 

one 12v feed (red) goes directly to pin1 on the motor.  This supplies the parking voltage and is on all the time.  The motor stops turning (parks) because of the plastic area inside the motor housing..... if the inside wiper is misaligned then the 12v persists and blows fuses/heats wires.

 

another feed (red) goes to pin3 micro switch ..... when pressed the 12v exits the micro on pin1 (wt/bl) goes to the footwell pin5 exits the footwell on pin2 (re/wt) and off to the motor on pin2 .... motor drives. (so yes, power goes from the micro, forwards to the footwell, and then back to the motor)

 

another feed (red) goes to pin3 footwell .... when pressed 12v exits the footwell pin2 (rd/wt) ... off to motor as above.

 

This all assumes the footwell sw is rocking /connecting as it should.

 

We guests arriving shortly so I must go and change.

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#11

There is a slight difference cab to coupe


The cab footwell switch only works with the ignition on, the coupe works all the time


That may or may not help, but it might influence the wire colours
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#12

OK, looking at the motor again there is a difference between how the foot well connects vs the rear key.   Roboman is right. It could be the motor.  

Motor has 4 connections.  2 are for the foot well and 2 are for the rear key.   Looks like the 2 for rear key are connected to an internal switch inside the motor.

So it looks like a cascading decision.  One switch (key), power another switch (inside the motor).  damn.  Time to rip open the motor.

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#13

The motor housing is very simple, just ease open the tags and lift the lid. Inside are just three wiper arms and a rotating disc which acts as a switch. It is the wiper alignment that is critical..... The central one is probably okay, it is the inner and outer which need to travel onto the plastic. You'll see what I mean when you open it.
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#14

I think I may have found the problem.   I think the previous owner replaced my hatch motor from a 944.

 

I compared the wiring diagrams between the 944 and 968.  Both harness and motors.   Both the harnesses and motors are different.    I have the 968 harness but the motors looks like from the 944 based on the wires colors on the pigtail attached to the motor. 

 

 The 968 motor is essentially the same with one exception.  There should be an extra diode running between pins 31 and 53.   Perhaps its in the pigtail attached to the motor and the electrical diagram shows the diode outside the motor enclosure.   If the 968 motor uses the 968 native wires it will should have a diode between the White/Blue strip wire and the Red w/White strip wire.    If it still uses 944 wiring colors it will be between the Brown and Red/White stripe wire. 

 

since I doubt I have 968 motor, I don't know exactly what it looks. Just going by the electrical schematics. 

 

Roboman, any chance you could take a photo of the wiring side of your motor?  Where the pigtail attaches to the pins on the motor. I bet there is a diode on there.  Although, I don't know what kind.  It would be helpful to know. Perhaps I can buy the diode and solder it on. 

 

968 motor: <i>951.624.024.01</i>

<i>944 motor: </i><i>944.624.024.02</i>

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#15

Roboman,

 

I think I located a photo of a real 968 hatch motor.  Confirmed.. looks like a donut shaped black diode.  Now I wonder what the part number is of that diode.    Photo 10 of 10 is best here:

 

https://m.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeig...7-223-8791

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#16

since there are no 968 hatch motors to be found, I guess I just order some diodes and solder one on to my 944 motor and see if that works.   I guess pretty much any diode will work.

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#17

Yes, there is a diode soldered on the outside of the motor's plastic lid between brown (P4/31) and Re/Wt (P2/53). That diode is called a "run on" diode, it's job is to allow the current/energy stored in the electrical motor coils to decrease slowly.  If it wasn't there the energy would collapse rapidly when switched off, and would tend to spark.  So, any diode of sufficient rating will work, no need for a "Porsche original diode", but in this case size does matter!  Make sure you solder the base to P4/31.

 

I've put two pin numbers above so as to link the harness pins and motor pins.

 

I still think you will be lifting the lid on that motor, but will be equally happy if there is no need.

 

Good luck .... now I'm off to collect a few boxes of wine for Christmas!!

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#18

Quote:Yes, there is a diode soldered on the outside of the motor's plastic lid between brown (P4/31) and Re/Wt (P2/53). That diode is called a "run on" diode, it's job is to allow the current/energy stored in the electrical motor coils to decrease slowly.  If it wasn't there the energy would collapse rapidly when switched off, and would tend to spark.  So, any diode of sufficient rating will work, no need for a "Porsche original diode", but in this case size does matter!  Make sure you solder the base to P4/31.

 

I've put two pin numbers above so as to link the harness pins and motor pins.

 

I still think you will be lifting the lid on that motor, but will be equally happy if there is no need.

 

Good luck .... now I'm off to collect a few boxes of wine for Christmas!!
Thank you Roboman.  Happy Holidays.. Stay safe.

I'm not completely sure but lack of a diode could explain the short if current is allowed to travel in the wrong direction through the internal switched inverter instead of through the motor as intended.   We shall see. I am thinking other people with the shorting problem may also be using a replacement 944 motor instead of the hard to find 968 motor which has the diode. 

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#19



 

968 motor: <i>951.624.024.01</i>

<i>944 motor: </i><i>944.624.024.02</i>


 

 

All 944 numbers are Superseded to 951 642 024 01, which has been NLA since 2014,

 

so looks like they are compatible with each other, but there is a tech bulletin to go with that, GR.5,NR.1/93, see if I can find anything

 

Update

 

Looks like the only place this is available is your local Porsche dealership parts dept or paying Alldata.com

 

If you do decide to pay for it its a tech bulletin from a 9442 so 85.5 on

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#20

ok, I got things working and wanted to follow up.

 

A. Symptoms:

 I have a coupe. The rear hatch release only worked from the driver's footwell switch.   I had a bad microswitch in the hatch, which is activated with the door key. When I replaced the microswitch, immediately after engaging the switch the fuse would blow (shared with front footwell circuit).

 

B. Research:

 

After comparing schematics between 944, 951, and 968 I determined that:

 

1. There was NO short in the rear hatch wiring.

2.  The hatch rear motors (944,951,968) all have 4 terminals.  On a 968, the front footwell connects to two of them and the rear microswitch connects to the other two.  There are  at least 3 different wiring scheme between 944, 951, 968 in how they connect to these 4 terminals.

3. There are two kinds of automotive pigtails attached to these motors;  a square connector and a round one. The 968 has a round connector, while the 944, 951 has either a square one or a round one (same as 968).  I am not sure exactly which 944,951 have round connector shared with the 968.

4. I had a stock 968 harness for the rear hatch circuit.

5. I determined that my rear hatch motor came from a 944/951 with the round connector.  It was not a 968 motor.

6. Both the footwell switch and the microswitch in the rear have three pins.  One pin is ground, another is positive, and third sends the signal to the motor.  By default, the open position from each switch sends ground.  Upon activation of the switch they send a positive signal.    

The signal wire for the footwell is Red w/ White Stripe.   The signal for the rear microswitch is White w/ Blue Stripe. 

 

C. Debug:

  Upon further review the 968 motor has an additional diode installed on the outside of the motor housing.    I decided to try modifying my 944 hatch motor by installing a couple different diodes to resemble how a 968 motor is wired.  This fixed the fuse from blowing when I engaged the microswitch.  The rear hatch light would dim when I hit the switch but the motor would not turn.  Not knowing what else is different between the 944 and 968 motors internally I decided to go with a different approach. 

 

D. Solution:

 

I decided to modify the 968 wiring harness to support 944 motors with the round plug. To do this, I would share the same motor input for both front footwell and the rear microswitch as all Porsche models supported at least one primary switch.   However, since in a 968 we have two switch which actively send a negative signal when not engaged, we can not simply wire them together as this would cause a short. i.e. one switch pulling high when the other is pulling low.  

 

Since I already bought a set of diodes, I created a little passive logic Y harness out two diodes.    This logic harness has two inputs and only one output.  I used spade connectors on all connections. Male spade on the output, and female on the two inputs.   The output would connect the cathode "gray strip" side of the diodes together creating a shared input to the motor.   The input side of each diode, the anode "black side", would attach to the front footwell and microswitch outputs signals;  Red w/ white stripe and White w/ blue strip respectively.    The diode prevent a positive signal from one switch upon engagement from feedback back into the other switch which is pulling the signal to ground.  Avoiding a short. 

 

I installed this device into the 968 harness at the connector (female side) just before it connects to the motor pigtail connector (male side). 

I cut the Red w/white stripe wire on the 968 harness so I could attach my logic harness.  The side of the Red w/white strip going to the motor I attached a female spade connector.  I then attached the male spade OUTPUT from my logic harness. This would the shared cathode side of both diodes, to make sure current only flows toward the motor.    Then the other side of the Red w/white strip wire which goes back to the front footwell, I attached male spade connector and ran it into one of the diodes inputs (anode side) on the logic harness.   At this point you should be able to test the front footwell switch to make sure it still is working with the diode inserted midspan going to the motor. Assume all is ok, now proceed to cut the White w/ blue strip wire on the harness.  The side going to the motor, we will not be using.  So either wire nut it off, or attach a female space connector on it in case you want to revert back the cut you just made.  One the side of the white w/blue strip wire that goes to the microswitch attach a male spade connector and run that connector into the other diode anode end (the remaining female connector) on the logic harness.  Now you are ready to try the microswitch.   

 

That's it.  You now have a 968 harness which supports the 944 motors with the round plug, which should be in more plentiful supply than the 968 motors.  If you ever find yourself a 968 motor and want to revert, simply remove the logic diode harness  and reconnect original Red w/white strip together as they have male and corresponding female connectors already in place.    Same with the White w/ blue stripe connection. 

 

in terms of diodes, I used a pair of N5406.

 

p.s. you don't need to add a diode on the 944 motor, since my solution abandons the effort to use the other two terminals on the motor. Just focus on share the same motor terminals inputs as the front footwell switch.

 

=======

 

Now just have to figure out how to pull out the old microswitch from the hatch and install the new one in its place. 

Anyone?? not obvious how to remove the old one.

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