[DaveN]

Thanks for trying Bob! To bad every thing didn't align with the 968 God's. On the bright side I now have 700.00 more to spend on rings and seals and bushings oh my! Now where is that engine block Mr. Customs man?

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[MB968]

[quote name='flash' timestamp='1349532340' post='133443']



...the problem i am having is that regardless of what i do to the mapping, the ECU will not let me lean out the very bottom end.



[/quote]



Are you running into a "minimum injector turn on time" issue?

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[flash]

not sure if that's what you would call it, but there is a bottom threshold that i cannot penetrate no matter what i do to any of the maps.

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[RMW]

a meth kit spraying 25% of fuel under boost will fix your problem .........Call Jeff Howerton at Howerton Engineering for the kit.........it's an easy fix guys.....

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[Eric_Oz_S2]

[quote name='flash' timestamp='1349558542' post='133466']

not sure if that's what you would call it, but there is a bottom threshold that i cannot penetrate no matter what i do to any of the maps.

[/quote]

You will need to locate the basic injector pulse duration in the code. This isn't in the maps.

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[MB968]

When I was setting up my Mazda using the TecGT ECU, one of the parameters you have to establish is the minimum injector turn on time (MIT). If the injector is fired for anything less than this amount of time, it will not have enough time to actually energize the coil in the injector and cause the pintle to slide open thus spraying fuel. I had to run a series of tests with the engine running to find the point above which the injector would support the engine running and below which the engine would falter and die. The value for the high impedience Nissan 370cc injectors (at 43 psi) that I was using turned out to be 1.4219 miliseconds. I was surprised how sensitive the number was; I was playing with the last digit to find the final setting for MIT. If I set the MIT to .0005 less the engine would falter. The way the ECU used this number was simple. If it calculated a value less than this due to the current conditions of the engine, it would send the injector 1.4219 ms, since anything less would cause the engine to stammer/stall, or die. Thus the designation "minimum injector turn on time". (because battery voltage impacts MIT, the ECU automatically adjusted MIT up or down to compensate for current system voltage).



If you are running into the MIT, it could explain why you couldn't impact the A/F at idle.

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[Eric_Oz_S2]

Yes - had the sane issue when tuning the S2. I had to tweek the injector dead time maps to get a good idle.

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[TheDude]

Bob:



Since it was me who kept pestering you about adding an intercooler, I especially must thank you for all your efforts.



I think, I can safely go on a limb and speak for us, we all here appreciate your efforts.



MN



P.S. Wrote a few pages back, "Lowering the intake temperature for more density would "fit the bill"? Could be done either through water injection and/or intercooler." Was close in guessing what "Stage 2" could (must!) be.

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[tamathumper]

w0rd.

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[flash]

rmw - that is NOT a viable solution. this must be street legal in all 50 states. also, adding another substance that must be filled up for the engine to run is a very bad idea. it doesn't matter if it's water or ethanol. the correct solution is to fix the problem, not to throw a bunch of crap at it to try to patch it. that's what backyard mechanics do. that's not what real tuners do. there is an increasing number of shops around here getting busted and shut down for doing stuff like that to street registered cars. i know of over a dozen guys who have lost their cars due to shops doing stuff like that and telling the customer "it will be ok".



i'm not doing anything to screw with the CARB certification. this is a very important component. even though some states are not testing, most are, and eventually all will be, as the air quality gets poorer in each area, the federal government tests it, and implements the statutes it has the power to do.



besides, this still does not answer the more basic issue. aside from the injectors, THE ENGINE CANNOT HANDLE THE BOOST REQUIRED TO OVERCOME THE INTERCOOLER RESTRICTION. i would have to crank up the boost so high to get the torque curve back that it would result in people popping motors. i'm not interested in that. i want no part of that happening.



if somebody wants to do that on their own, that's fine. i sell a "hardware only" kit that will allow people to buy an unmodified head unit, do their own tuning, add bigger injectors, and crank the boost wherever they want to.

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[RMW]

I'm just curious what a "real tuner" is to you? How many national championships , professional races and professional championships have YOU won? How many podiums or pro race wins have you under YOUR belt?



Thanks for the chuckle........on the way back from Philly after tuning 25 cars over the last 4 days...



while I can see you want to "fix" the car for CARB, I'm sure many of these guys who bought the kit in the first place would like to track them also. I personally don't see why you would buy a kit that you can't track and you make more power than you can legally run on the street. It's a Porsche for goodness sakes. Maybe I'm naive, I don't know but some of the stuff I read on the internet is just plain funny. I guess the Porsche race teams hire me because of my ability to think outside the box and I get results.



Not here to piss on your thread but saying I'm not a real tuner because I have a solution differing from your point of view is ludicrous.

These solutions have been around since WWII, I doubt those engineers thought it was a backyard mechanics patch.

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[lbpesq]

A meth kit? How about a straw that introduces cocaine directly to the airbox? You won't even need the supercharger!



Seriously though, Flash's commitment to improving this already wonderful car is extraordinary and GREATLY appreciated. I have never doubted that his products are created out of love rather than a quest for profit (Flash: do you even know what the word means?). The only thing I find even more remarkable than Bob's dedication to this automobile is his wife letting him do it! A big thanks to both of them.

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[flash]

rmw - this is a STREET kit. it was always a street kit, and it will always be a street kit. i've been very clear on that for 2 years. if somebody bought it with the plan to track it, then they're asking for problems. i do not now and never did want any part of this kit being used on the track. it is designed for MIDRANGE not top end. that is where we drive. that is the power i wanted to improve. i deliberately cut off the top end for very good reasons. i deliberately and permanently limited anyone's ability to fiddle with the kit too. i wanted a kit that was "bullet proof" under the intended use conditions. i wanted them running for a very long time. i got that.



very few of the 968 crowd has any interest in taking their car on the track. they drive the car the way it was designed to be driven, on twisty country roads. in 9 years of paying very close attention to this crowd, i am keenly aware of the ratio of track guys to street guys. there are less than 1% of the owners tracking their 968. i am focused on the 99%.



as for what i think a "real tuner" is, a real tuner understands the parameters of the car's use, and responds accordingly. he doesn't set up a car for a use not intended. a real tuner would not install a meth kit on a street car, any more than he would install snow tires on a race car. a meth kit is illegal in california on a street driven vehicle for starters. beyond that, it's just not practical. where they hell are you going to get filled up in the middle of nowhere on a sunday drive? it is also NOT the solution to this problem. if you just had to have it, the solution would be to build the motor for more boost, and tune accordingly. it is not to apply some cobbled together patch kit of illegal and impractical parts, in a lame attempt to "fix" something. it's like taking aspirin for a headache, when the cause is somebody smacking you in the head with a hammer. the answer is to get rid of the hammer and the idiot swinging it.



the things you might do a race car do not apply here. i see this kind of nonsense all the time though. i constantly see people try to put crap on a street car that only belongs on a race car. these "street racers" are dangerous, and a very real problem. thankfully those shops that are setting them up are beginning to get nailed. those cars do not belong on the street, and those kids should be arrested and their cars impounded. the shops are acting incredibly irresponsibly when they install things like that, knowing full well that the car is being driven on the street. it's no different than a bartender serving a drunk. thankfully the law is catching up with this growing problem, and beginning to solve it.



i have no problem with anybody setting up a race car anyway they want, and i applaud the shops doing it. a street car is an entirely different animal, and should be dealt with accordingly. all of us in the industry have a responsibility to ensure that the things we do are not misused. we cannot merely say "it's not our responsibility what the owner does". we know better. it's that simple. i followed the same philosophy when i had my shop too. it's the right thing to do.



25 cars in 4 days. that's at least a nice $50,000 weekend. what are you doing even messing with this crowd?

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[Eric_Oz_S2]

I don't think meth injection would suit that many people. Meth injection is banned in most circuit race events (at least here in Australia) as it is classed as an additive (to the control fuel).

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[gbarrier]

My only meth experience was on my truck (cummins) and it took a lot of washer fluid to do a little cooling.

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[94SilverCab]

I'd like to know more about the cars RMW is tuning...sounds like a fountain of knowledge....seriously!



Jay

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[flash]

let's keep this thread on track.



meth and other such illegal add-on components are not for street cars, and certainly not suited to this kit.

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[flash]

so, i'm back on the dyno trying my last thing at 1 on thursday. no chance of the big gains i had hoped for, but at least maybe i can make it safer for the track guys.



lol - more time and money spent on something i don't need and can't use - woohoo!

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[DaveN]

Yea but your like Mohammed and somebody stuck a damn mountain in front of you <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/biggrin.png" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[flash]

ok - so, i couldn't leave it alone. i have good news, and i'll post the details by tomorrow morning. i just need to compile the data and put some numbers together.

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