[Ceenit]

Time for some preventative maintance and taking the plunge to get the belts, rollers, tensioners, and water pump replaced. I recieved a cost estimate from a local well know porsche mechanic (non-dealership). I would appreciate feedback if these costs are in the ballpark or if I should be looking elsewhere.



Total estimate covers belts, rollers, tensioners, water pump, etc.. I also asked for a separate estimate on inspecting the vario cam. Summary and detial below. Feedback appreciated.



Summary cost for belts and related items: Parts $1100, Labor $594

Summary cost for Vario Cam inspection: Parts $100, Labor $117

Tax of about $90...grand total about $2,000.



Details below:



R&R water pump/belts/rollers

Inspect vario guides



__________________________________________________________________

Job01 R&R TB/WP Labor: 6.6 hrs@$90.00/hr=$594.00

__________________________________________________________________

R&R Waterpump, Including R&R Belts and Plastic Roller/Tensioners, Tension Belts. __________________________________________________________________

944 106 129 05 Thermostat 1.0 @ 20.77 =$ 20.77

999 707 283 40 Water Pump O-Ring 2.0 @ 3.68 =$ 7.36

951 106 313 00 Bypass Elbow Flange 1.0 @ 8.79 =$ 8.79

NPNCOOLANT Antifreeze 1.0 @ 17.14 =$ 17.14

944 102 277 06 Auxiliary Shaft Roller 1.0 @ 47.84 =$ 47.84

944 102 219 04 Auxiliary Shaft Belt 1.0 @ 94.50 =$ 94.50

944 102 025 07 Auxiliary Belt Tension 1.0 @ 36.36 =$ 36.36

944 105 323 02 Timing belt 1.0 @ 59.86 =$ 59.86

944 105 172 03 Timing Belt Tensioner 1.0 @ 159.26 =$ 159.26

944 105 631 10 Timing Belt Roller 1.0 @ 86.03 =$ 86.03

944 106 021 24 water pump 1.0 @ 391.63 =$ 391.63

944 106 132 12 Waterpump Gasket 1.0 @ 5.27 =$ 5.27

999 192 236 50 Belt Power Steering 10 1.0 @ 7.99 =$ 7.99

944 105 241 02 Cam Belt Roller 1.0 @ 52.09 =$ 52.09

999 192 299 50 Belt Alternator 6pk 10 1.0 @ 13.73 =$ 13.73

944 105 241 03 Cam Belt Roller 1.0 @ 50.64 =$ 50.64

__________________________________________________________________

Job02 Inspect vario guides Labor: 1.3 hrs@$90.00/hr=$117.00

__________________________________________________________________

Remove valve cover and inspect vario cam components __________________________________________________________________

928 104 447 09 K valve cover kit 1.0 @ 96.43 =$ 96.43

944 104 463 01 oil gasket 1.0 @ 3.37 =$ 3.37

999 701 693 40 O-ring 1.0 @ 3.93 =$ 3.93



__________________________________________________________________

Estimate Cost Summary

__________________________________________________________________

Tax: $90.70

Estimate Total: $1,972.19

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[Cloud9...68]

A few comments. First, and I'm sure others will chime in on this as well, are you sure you don't want to do this job yourself? It looks intimidating, but it's actually pretty easy; it's just time-consuming. If your car isn't a daily driver, you have a garage and the necessary tools, and you can afford to take your time, this is a job that's actually difficult to screw up.



Having said that, assuming you can't do it yourself, you're kind of stuck paying through the nose. I don't know if the total is a fair estimate, but I know that many, if not all, of the parts are available MUCH cheaper than your mechanic's estimate. For example, you can get both the timing and the balance shaft belt from Rockauto (the original, and by most, the preferred, Gates brand), for $45, plus shipping. And many, including myself, have had good luck with a remanufactured water pump, available from Paragon for about $120. Several of the other parts look very inflated as well. Do you think your mechanic would be open to letting you supply the parts? If not, you might see if you can find someone who would. Although most mechanics won't install a remanufactured water pump, because of all the labor involved with replacing it if it leaks.



I'm sorry, I know this isn't a whole lot of help. If this mechanic has a good reputation, and you have a high comfort level going to him, then you should use him. But being the cheapskate that I am, I would get at least one additional estimate, plus look for some alternative, creative solutions. This is the rare job that doesn't require much skill, and whose parts are actually pretty cheap if you shop around, but just takes a lot of time. For example, do you know someone who likes to work on cars and would be willing to help you? There's a very good DIY on this forum. Best of luck.

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[PorscheG96]

The prices are about right except I agree that there's some mark-up on the parts costs but nothing outrageous. You should also have all of the front engine oil seals replaced at the same time. If there's one thing I've learned after having 1 944 and 3 968's it's that you don't just replace belts without also doing the waterpump and front seals because one of those things will start leaking later and you'll regret not doing it at the same time.

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[Ceenit]

Thanks for the responses, they are very helpful. In fact, I think I may be looking for the encouragement to do it myself. I've done a Volvo before, and am a fair shade-tree mechanic (it is a spare car, I do have a garage, and I would like to get my hands dirty to get better comfort level with the engine.)



I'll do some more searching, my goal now may be to validate the right parts list for a DIY. The list from the mechanic is probably a great start.

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[Cloud9...68]

If you have the facility and the tools, and you don't need your car every day, I strongly encourage you to do this job yourself. Just take your time, and you'll be fine. You do, unfortunately, need a couple of special tools. The first one is a flywheel lock; it's absolutely indispensable. Shop around, because it seems like I've seen some sources for them recently at lower prices than I've seen in the past. I think thy're in the $70 - $100 range. Second, a flat, slightly curved special wrench is very helpful for setting the balance shaft belt tension. Paragon has them for a little over $20. This tool isn't an absolute necessity, but it makes what can be one of the more frustrating steps of the job easier.



And definitely shop around for the parts. I have to respectfully disagree with PorscheG96 - I think you'll find the prices on your mechanic's list to be drastically inflated. If you shop around at places like Paragon Parts, Rockauto, and AutohausAZ, I bet you could find all the parts on your mechanic's list for under $500, if you go with a remanufactured water pump, which I personally recommend, although you'll see some debate on this point. The thing has one, uno, ein, (1) moving part, for goodness sake.



But more than anything, read through the DIY, take your time, take breaks if you get stuck, post any questions you have on this forum, and I bet you'll tell yourself when you're done that it wasn't that difficult of a job. You stand to save a ton of money that you could put toward other things for your car, plus get that priceless sense of satisfaction, if you do it yourself.

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[PorscheG96]

[quote name='Cloud9...68' timestamp='1290613654' post='101594']And definitely shop around for the parts. I have to respectfully disagree with PorscheG96 - I think you'll find the prices on your mechanic's list to be drastically inflated. If you shop around at places like Paragon Parts, Rockauto, and AutohausAZ, I bet you could find all the parts on your mechanic's list for under $500, if you go with a remanufactured water pump, which I personally recommend, although you'll see some debate on this point.[/quote]

If there's another thing that I've learned in owning these cars for the past 10 yrs it's that you do not shop around for the cheapest parts when it comes to the TIMING BELT or engine seals. Unlike many other owners, I've never lost a timing belt and I've also never had another oil leak spring up after replacing the engine oil seals which I attribute to proper replacement intervals and also using the right parts. If you price these parts out at a dealer like Sunset then you'll find that the prices that were quoted are pretty close to current prices. If you shop around for cheap reproductions of belts and engine seals then you are risking catastrophe to save a few bucks. Not a risk worth taking IMO.

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[Cloud9...68]

I totally agree. But a Gates (original equipment on the 968) timing and balance shaft belt together can be had for $45 from Rockauto, which is less than a third the price for the two in the quote. The seals are pretty cheap no matter where you get them, so Sunset should be a good source for these.



As far as the rollers, normally I would recommend going with OEM. However, given how often it's recommended to change the belts on these cars (about three years), I think it's safe to go with aftermarket rollers. The water pump is a whole other debate. I've seen both good and bad experiences with both new and remanufactured pumps over the years, so this one is a flip of the coin.

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[flash]

the number look pretty "normal" though certainly you could do both better and worse - the big concern is the quality of the work - setting the cams is not simple, and if you want everything the engine has to offer, it takes somebody who knows what they are doing



shops factor in a certain amount of parts sales markup in their anticipated revenues - if you take away that markup, you are likely to get one of two results - one is that they then ding you for every minute they spend on the car, the other is that they just plain turn you away



as for parts selections, i shy away from internet parts as a rule, unless i can verify the age and brand of the part - particularly with belts, i don't want some overstock old belt that has been on a shelf for 5 years getting hard



as for reman pumps, you have to inspect them for install depth of the bearing, shaft, and impeller to see that they fit in without issue - if those check out, and the seal is soft, there should be no issue - that being said, see the above concern regarding the rubber seal

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[smshirk]

Does the three year rule of thunmb on belts, rollers, etc apply regardless of mileage? I have about 4 years on mine but only 5k miles, if that.

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[flash]

YES!!!



in case you missed it, YES!!! 3 years MAXIMUM!



i only had 20k on my 4 year old belts and i shredded the balance belt



CHANGE THEM!

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