[bibbetson]

[quote name='flash' date='May 1 2006, 03:24 PM']i have a question about that too - since i presume that means you are changing your springs, have you found a way to change them without loosening the camber adjuster?

[right][post="20201"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]



Sorry, yes, the 200 - 250 was in reference to front springs. I have not needed to change them. Basically, the difference is what size font wheel / tire you use. I run 255's on 17x9 on all four corners w/ 250lb hypercoils. This allows me to run a stiffer front spring without understeer. Initially, I had 225's on 17x7.5 wheels and I could never get the turn-in needed. If you are running standard size front / rear tire widths then you will need to run softer front springs. Likely 200 - 225 lbs. This is personal knowledge on my coupe, although the same has been applied successfully to many S2's and 951's.

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[bob blackwell]

The 200 - 250 rate has to refer to the springs, not the shocks. Koni Yellow, sport, gas-adjustable struts have adjustment for bounce but not rebound and it is not measured in pounds of pressure. If money were not an issue, the Leda remote reservoir shocks & struts would be my first choice. Good luck, Bob Blackwell.

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[KRAG50]

Where are you guys getting your M030 sway bars from, are they original OEM <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/cool.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> or after-market and if after-market which ones have the best bang for the buck??

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[TheMirror]

A question I asked a little while ago. Try Paragon Products on the link to the right of the page.



Cheers,

-Mirror



[quote name='KRAG50' date='May 2 2006, 09:53 AM']Where are you guys getting your M030 sway bars from, are they original OEM  <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/cool.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> or after-market and if after-market which ones have the best bang for the buck??

[right][post="20261"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

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[mitch968]

I'll probably get mine from Paragon, but I haven't shopped around yet. I believe they are OEM.

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[bibbetson]

Whenever you find someone talking about M030 bars, they are talking about the OEM porsche part. There are some better aftermarket bars, but not for the money. Aftermarket bars are very different in size, material, shape and adjustment procedures.



I have found Sunset Imports to have the lowest prices on M030 bars, although I'm sure that RS Barn would like a shot at the business.

http://www.sunsetimports.com/porscheatcost.php

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[mitch968]

Hmmm....maybe there's a group buy opportunity if we have enough people upgrading?

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[TheMirror]

I'd be game for that.



[quote name='mitch968' date='May 2 2006, 10:12 AM']Hmmm....maybe there's a group buy opportunity if we have enough people upgrading?

[right][post="20265"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

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[968bill]

Count me in for a group buy too.



Dumb question though, are the M030 bars just front, rear or both? Guess I could look them up on the PP website.

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[flash]

both - 30mm front vs 26mm stock and 19mm rear vs 16mm stock - rear has 3 positions for varying stiffness

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[KRAG50]

I would also be interested in a group buy.

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[Anchorman]

Pete (RS Barn) just installed M030 front and rear sway bars for me. At his request, I purchased them (from Sunset) and had them shipped directly to him. I'm very pleased.

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[mitch968]

While we're talking about sways, are there any tricks to installing them? At first glance, it looks very straightforward and easy, but I've never actually done it before.

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[bob blackwell]

Very straightforward and simple, just as you thought. Do it with the car on a lift or ramps if possible so the suspension weight is on the tires while the bar is replaced. You do not want any pre-load on one side or the other which may result from allowing the suspension to hang loose while changing the anti-sway bars. I recommend the KLA front sway bar brace and the DELRIN bushings while you are doing this, they make a big difference in the responsiveness of the car and do not make it any stiffer or more noisy for daily driving. Good luck, Bob Blackwell.

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[mitch968]

Bob, good info. I have a couple pairs of ramps, so I'll just drive the front up and then jack the rear and lower onto the other pair. I've heard good things about the front brace, so I was planning on it. I thought there were noise issues with the delrin bushings, no?

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[bob blackwell]

No noise problems at all with them installed on the anti-sway bars. I had terrible squeaking when I installed them on the torsion tube carrier in the rear of my 924S a few years ago. It was so annoying I finally removed them and went back to the factory rubber in that location only. I installed the Delrin bushings with a waterproof grease from Weltmeister that is very thick and "sticky". good luck, Bob Blackwell.

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[flash]

yeah - those things can be a real pain - the fact that you have to hand fit them is a problem, and then, when they start squeaking, it sounds like something is broken - i removed them too



sorry to hear you had to reinstall the rubber though - that had to be a pain, since they are bonded - i'm sure it was certainly easier than it was removing them though



i now have the elephant racing polybronze bushings back there - very nice - they have grease fittings too

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[ether_joe]

hey guys this is a hugely informative thread, thanks.



Hey Mirror small suggestion - your posts are more readable if you leave out the big quotations.

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[TheMirror]

OK, last time, I promise! <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/tongue.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />



Its a legacy from my Subaru board days, where you needed to do that because the boards were huge and threads galloped along at a fast pace.



GP White forever!



-Mirror



[quote name='ether_joe' date='May 3 2006, 01:52 PM']Hey Mirror small suggestion - your posts are more readable if you leave out the big quotations.

[right][post="20385"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]

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[whakiewes]

I have posted before about 944 lineage suspensions, but I finally had/have the chance to experience a setup 968. My car runs the Bilstein Escort cup kit with 400lb/350lb springs, rear torsion delete, M030 bars, fixed monoball camber plates, fully corner balanced to 50/50 with 1 degree rake. At first I was expecting pretty stiff, but in all honesty its not that bad. In fact, I find it quite a bit more relaxed than my friends 951 with Koni/Weltmeister 250's with Welt sways. Its definantly firm, but not bouncy, not bone jarring, and not over agressive. No DE's or auto-x's, but overall very likable.



951 with full Leda's and T-bar delete with Welt sways was about the same. Very well balanced, sorted, and comfortable. Stiff of course, but not bad.



951 with Welts/Koni's is probably the least enjoyable. Its stiff, but not controlled. It has a thin limit and doesn't like to let you know its limit. Of course the turbo surge is different than the 968, but the 951 with the Leda's was way more controlled.



After owning this, its not really worth bouncing around with mixed and matched parts. Stock Koni's/Bilstein's aren't going to be stiff enough to support much more than 250lb's, and they adjust damp/rebound together 50/50 which doesn't address your differences in high speed and low speed setting, overall setup, etc... As everyone has said though, one of the best things I have seen is just a good alignment, corner balance, replace bushings, and just maitenence. The car has it, but with the cars getting to 14 years old, things are getting old as well.



Wes

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