[jpk]

I'm having a bit of trouble getting a solid feel to my clutch pedal. No matter what I do, it still seems a bit sluggish on return, and I can feel as the helper spring snaps it up. I don't recall it doing this previously. The engagement point seems very low as well, but I think it was pretty much like that before. (I notice that mostly when I feel how different the Saab is) The car is drivable, but it just doesn't feel right.



This started after I flushed the brakes. While installing the KW coilovers, I also replaced all of the brake hoses with braided. I used the motive at around 7-8 psi, and flushed ATE Super Blue through the lines.



No matter how much I bleed the clutch, it still seems as if there's air in the line. I saw the note in the 944 service manual about removing the slave and pushing the pin back to force the fluid back up the line and up to the master. I tried that a couple of times, and it seemed like I got a bit of air out the first time.



I flushed everything through again with some ATE Amber, but there's no difference.



I did notice that while the motive is still pressurized, even at just a few psi, the pedal feels much better.



The master, slave and hose are new last Fall. I double checked the specs on the master cylinder rod to pedal length, and the length of the helper spring, and as well as I can measure upside down, they're both within a mm or so. I set them pretty carefully last Fall, so I'd have to say they're good. I didn't have any trouble bleeding the clutch last Fall.



Anybody have any tips on how to bleed the clutch system completely? Anything else I should consider? (maybee gunk caught in the master?)

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[flash]

first, set the motive to at least 11lbs - it even says right on it to set to 10 - i've heard of people going as high as 18 - do NOT exceed 20



after you have done that, you may still need to get a buddy and do the "open - push - hold - close - release" method to get it all out



do not pump the pedal

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[Dave]

I typically run the Motive at about 12-15 psi, which may or may not help.



Once, with a bit of air in the clutch system, I was getting bloody well nowhere with improving the feel of the pedal. I called a long-time P-car mechanic and he recommended I "gravity bleed" the clutch, then Motive one more time. It worked.



- Fill reservoir quite full

- Open clutch slave bleeder with an open top container beneath it

- Allow to "gravity bleed" for 30+ minutes (go have a beer or two)

- Check reservoir now and then to ensure it remains pretty full

- It will drain VERY SLOWLY, kinda like watching paint dry



After a good 30 minutes, close the bleeder valve, hook up the Motive and give it one more brief power bleed.



That did the trick on my car. I have also heard of folks tapping the slave and master cylinders during this process in hopes of getting any stubborn air bubbles to dislodge. I didn't have to do this, but can see how it may make sense.



All of the above assumes you are getting pretty good flow out of the clutch slave (not clogged). If it is clogged, the Motive will not produce sufficient pressure to move the gunk out, you'll need pedal cycles to do that. Doesn't sound like that's your challenge though.



Hope this helps and a firm pedal magically returns!

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[JonT]

Another method that worked for me once....

If you can get enough pedal to (gingerly) drive the car, just drive the car on a bumpy road for a bit.

I started with about 1mm of pedal travel, was just barely able to shift into gear from a stop, drove around for a bit, parked overnight and magically had a perfect pedal the next morning.

The theory is shaking the air bubbles up and out of the system. I was skeptical but it worked for me.

Jon

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[Duckman]

I've been having the same issue and I believe it's the slave cylinder. I'm replacing it Monday. I'll let you know.

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[Vedder]

I used to have this problem for a year never manage to got around it, but after replacing the master and the slave cylinder, and still nothing, i read about a cracked firewall aroung the area where the Master Cylinder attaches to the Firewall, and guess what?! it was seriously cracked.

Have a freind press the clutch pedal while you look insid ethe engine compartiment, if its cracked youll see it move back and foward.

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[jpk]

Gave it another go today and had sucess. I removed the slave cylinder and was able to pump the fluid through by just pushing the slave cylinder back in place. Open the bleeder, push the slave in place compressing the piston, close, repeat as necessary. All I need to do now is get a proper track allignment and I'm set.

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