[ordy999]

Hi



I am considering changing the belts on my long term 968' hardly any miles in four years, however they are four.



Can anyone advise on the following please.



Read the instructions on belt replacement and it says lock the adjuster with a special tool once compressed, can you do it with this special tool, same for the balance belt to adjust tension.



Also on belts, original or after market, both are conti tech belts, but around £100.00 pounds difference.



Thanks



Ordy

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[mbardeen]

Yes, you can lock the tensioner without the special "tool" -- a nail or a bit of wire with the same diameter will work. Just insert it in the appropriate hole in the tensioner once it's compressed.





The forum recommended belts are Gates as some members have had problems with Continental belts.

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[ordy999]

Hi ,



Thanks for info, what about tensioning the balance belt, do you need that tool or just twist belt 90 degrees and that's it done.?



Gates belts, never heard of them, maybe they are Americas only.



Thanks



Ordy

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[flash]

tensioning the balance belt without the tool is a bit of an art. you have to know what the correct tension feels like, in order to be able to set it by hand. it's pretty loose. the twist thing is pretty close. the other trick is to push it against the water pump pulley, and use about the same amount of force as pushing the fog light switch. if it just touches, it's right. if you have to push much harder, it's too tight. it if touches too easily, it's too loose.



gates should be available there, and is the OEM belt. conti stretches like a rubber band when it gets hot

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[ordy999]

Thanks flash for the info, I will give the gates belts a try, they are cheaper than original fit belts, should be able to get idea of tension from old belts as they have done very few miles and your advice.



There has to be a first time for everything.



Hope it's not a expensive one.



Thanks



Ordy

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[flash]

it's not all that critical. it needs to be tight enough to stay put and not jump teeth, but loose enough not to whine.



one thing to note though, the lower adjuster can swing both ways. make sure you put it where the belt won't hit the cover. it will make sense once you're in there.

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[Cloud9...68]

[quote name='flash' timestamp='1365184242' post='140979']

one thing to note though, the lower adjuster can swing both ways. make sure you put it where the belt won't hit the cover. it will make sense once you're in there.

[/quote]



Very true. If you have it the "wrong" way, it's impossible to get the various clearances right. Takes a bit of trial and error, but once you see it, it's pretty clear. I may have some pictures of the "right" and "wrong" orientation.



And I applaud your interest in doing this job yourself. It's not that hard once you get past the various quirks, and it can save you A TON of money, plus it's just a good way to familiarize yourself with some major components of the car. Just go slow, stop to ask questions if you get stuck, and double-check everything. If I can do it, anybody can.

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[blue968]

The hardest thing I found about the job is compressing the hydraulic tensioner. I had to use a pry bar at a certain angle and be patient and apply pressure slowly until compressed and dont let go because it wil decompress very quickly and you will have to do it all over again. Also take notice as to were the pin hole is before compressing so u dont have a hard time putting pin through the hole.



Good luck

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[Cloud9...68]

[quote name='blue968' timestamp='1365208790' post='140994']

The hardest thing I found about the job is compressing the hydraulic tensioner. I had to use a pry bar at a certain angle and be patient and apply pressure slowly until compressed and dont let go because it wil decompress very quickly and you will have to do it all over again. Also take notice as to were the pin hole is before compressing so u dont have a hard time putting pin through the hole.



Good luck

[/quote]

Actually, it's much easier to simply remove the tensioner by removing the two bolts that hold it to the block. Then you can easily compress it in a vise.

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[Scott Collins]

I have used only Gates for the past 50K miles with no problems.



If I remember correctly, the last time I removed the timing belt I cut it and pulled it off. Then it was easy to unbolt the tensioner and get it in a vise for the compression sequence.

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[Cloud9...68]

[quote name='Scott Collins' timestamp='1365218154' post='141002']

If I remember correctly, the last time I removed the timing belt I cut it and pulled it off. Then it was easy to unbolt the tensioner and get it in a vise for the compression sequence.

[/quote]

I can't see any reason for not doing this, since you're going to replace the belt anyway. However, I was able to remove the tensioner pretty easily without having to cut the belt.

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[ordy999]

Thanks for all the info, yeah I am putting the car in a spot on the drive were it can be left, so no hurry to finish it in one day, does anyone lock the flywheel by taking the starter out or will sticking him in gear not just do the same job.



Also is top dead centre easy to find, is there it timing marks on the pulleys etc,



Just pulling the. Info before I start,



Ordering gates belts today.



Anything thing else would you recommend to change, it had a tensioner pulley last time when I had someone do the belts, and a idler pulley, but its only done 6000 miles in 4 years.



Sad or what,



Thanks

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[flash]

you need to use the flywheel lock. you really can't get things lined up right without it, and you certainly can't time the cams without it.



if your pulleys show no corrosion, and spin freely and quietly, i would run them again.

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[ordy999]

Thanks flash, is the flywheel lock just a hole in the flywheel?



Can you lock it with a bolt or screw driver



Thanks

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[flash]

you need this:



http://www.paragon-products.com/Flywheel-p/p-9206-1.htm

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[tamathumper]

Also bear in mind if you're searching elsewhere, the flywheel lock is different for manual and automatic transmissions.

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[Cloud9...68]

Just to clarify one small point, the primary reason you need the flywheel lock is that you can't remove the nut holding the front pulley without it. And yes, there are several ways to find <acronym title='top dead center'>TDC</acronym>. The most reliable is by looking down through the window on top of the bell housing and looking for the mark on the flywheel. This is described in the manual. Do you have a copy? You really need to get your hands on one. I believe you can download one from the site, but I'm not 100% sure. Also, there's a window in the distributor housing which can be used to find <acronym title='top dead center'>TDC</acronym>, so I would use this as an initial indicator, and use the one on top of the bell housing to confirm.

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[ordy999]

Thanks, I think I can get access to a manual,



So you are all saying the job can't be done without this flywheel tool?



Can it not be locked in gear to take the bolt out?



Thanks



Ordy

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[flash]

that is essentially what we are saying. buy the tool.



besides the above mentioned issue, the big issue i see is being able to hold the cam gear still while adjusting the cam timing. without the flywheel lock, you can't get it to hold still enough. the amount of movement needed to adjust the cam timing is very small. any movement of the crank and you're screwed. cam timing is key to getting the performance out of the engine. it can easily be a 10hp difference. if you don't care about that, then maybe, assuming you have excellent compression, you might be able to slap belts in there. i've never tried it that way, and don't know anybody else who has either.

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[Cloud9...68]

I was confused about why Flash was bringing up cam timing in a discussion about a belt change, but I think he means that if you don't have the flywheel lock in place, and consequently end up moving the crank, even a very small amount, while the timing belt is off, you'll mess up you cam timing. Yes, that's another good reason to make sure the flywheel, and consequently the crank, is completely immobilized while you have the belts off. In any event, I totally agree that I wouldn't attempt this job without the flywheel lock took. Very well worth the investment.

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