[earossi]

I know that there have been many instances of issues with the 968 starters; so it is my turn to have one! After sitting for a week or so, I decided to take a long drive in my car. Since the batteries run down on our machines, I had charged the battery the night before.



When I got into the car, she started up just fine.....as she always has. I made about a 20 mile drive, shut the car off and when I returned to the car after about an hour she once again started nicely.....no hint of a problem. The car ran flawlessly.



When I arrived home, I shut the car off for about 5 minutes and then attempted to restart the car to put it in the garage. The starter sounded as though it wasn't engaging, so I recycled the key a couple of times, and she finally appeared to turn over slowly and then came to life. I put the car away and then shut it down and tried to restart it again only to have the same issue occur. If I hadn't charged the battery the night before, I would almost conclude that I had a bad battery from the way the car behaved. The starter Bendix appears to not engage until you make several attempts to start the car. And, when it does appear to engage, the motor is slow to turn over.



Tonight when the car is cool, I'll try to restart her and if the issue is still there, I'll attempt to charge the battery. Incidentally, I had installed one of the sealed batteries in the car about a year ago (can't remember the brand, but they have been discussed on this forum many times).



Has anyone experienced similar issues with their cars?

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[flash]

sounds like "gummy starter syndrome" - try a search here for that phrase

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Anchorman]

It also could be a battery issue - caused by frayed cables running to the starter that are shorting out and bringing your battery down. The cable from the battery to the starter is known to deteriorate, exposing conductors that can touch various places and kill the battery charge. Either way, you need to get underneath and look (and, probably, clean).

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[PorscheDude]

Make sure all cables are free of corrosion.



I recently got a rebuilt starter from autozone for under $100.

I think they are competitively priced at sunset Porsche as well.



The gummy starter is an easy DIY.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[earossi]

[quote name='flash' post='56629' date='Jul 23 2008, 09:35 AM']sounds like "gummy starter syndrome" - try a search here for that phrase[/quote]





Flash,



I remember reading about the gummy starter issue long ago; but, also remember that the owner later mentioned that he had to end up replacing the starter anyway (was that Dave Griemman?).



As an aside, I do have a set of the Iceshark cables that I need to install. They were made up for the 944. Can anyone comment on the differences between the cable sets that Dan made up for 944's versus for 968's? And, I need to know if I need to modify the cables to use them.



I did just clean up the starter cable ends about a month or so ago when I had to pull the starter to install a flywheel lock in preparation for some other work.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Anchorman]

I don't know if the battery cable installation instructions will have any clue to whether or not the cable sets are different, but I could send to you a PDF of the installation instructions for Dan's 968 cable set, if you'd like.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[flash]

there will be a very exciting post about this very soon

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[earossi]

[quote name='Anchorman' post='56638' date='Jul 23 2008, 04:11 PM']I don't know if the battery cable installation instructions will have any clue to whether or not the cable sets are different, but I could send to you a PDF of the installation instructions for Dan's 968 cable set, if you'd like.[/quote]



Thanks, but I have the installation instructions. Not sure if they are for the 944 or 968. On second thought, if you have instructions specifically for the 968, it would be nice to compare them to what I have.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Anchorman]

Got your PM with your email address, instructions have been sent.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[earossi]

I have decided to change out the starter motor rather than mess around with the existing unit since it appears to be the original starter. Sunset Porsche had the best buy on a rebuilt unit at $95, so I have one on the way. After the install, I'll begin the change out of the battery harness for the IceShark assembly I've had sitting on the shelf for the last year or so.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[RPM]

As you diagnose problems like this don't discount the idea of a bad battery - even if yours is new. When I was going through my own starter adventures last year I had replaced the starter with a rebuild from Sunset, changed the alternator, cleaned and rewrapped all of the connections, and installed a new Autozone battery (Autozone only because my son in law worked there at the time and the old battery died in a parking lot - he brought the battery to me in 20 minutes). Despite all of this the car still had a starting problem. My mechanic noticed the Autozone battery and suggested we swap to an Interstate. Sure enough, that fixed the problem. A brand new battery was not functioning properly. Problem solved.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Ryan]

I was having starter problems last year. At times the starter would not engage the teeth to the flywheel all the way and I would get that wonderful grinding sound. I took the starter out and cleaned/lubed it. It has worked perfectly ever since. Don't by a new one just because is looks like the original. Mine was as well. It is an easy fix really. Give it a shot.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[earossi]

[quote name='RPM' post='56757' date='Jul 26 2008, 01:33 PM']As you diagnose problems like this don't discount the idea of a bad battery - even if yours is new. When I was going through my own starter adventures last year I had replaced the starter with a rebuild from Sunset, changed the alternator, cleaned and rewrapped all of the connections, and installed a new Autozone battery (Autozone only because my son in law worked there at the time and the old battery died in a parking lot - he brought the battery to me in 20 minutes). Despite all of this the car still had a starting problem. My mechanic noticed the Autozone battery and suggested we swap to an Interstate. Sure enough, that fixed the problem. A brand new battery was not functioning properly. Problem solved.[/quote]



Yeah, my first thought was that I may have a bad battery. I installed a new Optima battery about a year ago and it has been flawless since then, until I experienced the starter problem. Sure sounded like a weak battery. However, if I let the car cool down for about 30 minutes, she cranked right up as though nothing had happened. Started the next morning without any problems. So, I concluded that the starter had gotten pretty hot from my long drive and was affected so that she would not crank the car.



I could take the starter apart and oil it up per the "gummy starter syndrome" instructions on this website; but, my luck would dictate that the next time I experience a starting problem will be when I am the furthest from home! I'm just that lucky with cars! So, I chickened out and ordered the rebuilt unit.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[flash]

i can't fault that logic - i have never been a fan of quick fix solutions and stop gap measures - i know that sometimes they work - i know that they can save money - i also think that this was done to mine at dave's house, albeit as a preventative measure, and it has held up - i also know hat someday it will take a dump, and at that time, i will replace it



20 years ago, when i had my shop, the shop's official motto, and something i learned passed down from my grandfather was "Do it Once - Do it Right - Don't go back" (i think it's even an old union motto) - seeing the wisdom in his words, i took those words to heart - i refused to do stop gap stuff - i wanted happy customers, nobody likes having to take a car back to the shop, and i certainly did not like doing the same job twice



(lol - boy was that slogan hard to fit into the artwork though)

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[nissanite]

I had a problem with the nose shaft bushing that hold the front of the starter shaft. It has nothing to do with the battery. The bushing had worn & allowed the starter teeth to miss the flywheel.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[csc71]

I really need the experts help on this one. Anyone up for a good mystery? I will try to break this down as quick as I can.

I posted in May that I was having temperature gauge issues, running in the red and having the warning light come on. I was warned about failing water pumps so I immediately took it to a local dealership and they diagnosed the car and replaced a fan switch and the thermostat. Right after that, the temp gauge continued to shoot right for the red zone and now the car wouldn't start. I turn the key and get nothing, no click nothing. My Dad was convinced there was a short, but the dealership said I needed a battery. I bought a battery at a local auto parts store and gave it to the dealership. They told me the battery was dead and that maybe it sat on the shelf too long. Now on a side note I was laid off from my job and had to return my company car, so the P car was going to be my daily driver until I could get something else. I was trying to save money by not buying a dealership battery. So I purchase battery #2 and they tell me the same thing, so I finally said, just put one of your batteries in it. Now the dealer said that the problem was my temp gauge. So I bought a used one from DC Automotive and the dealer took one look at it and said they did not want to use as it looked damaged, so now I am having a temp gauge shipped from Germany while I borrow cars from friends and rent cars from Budget. Dealer calls nearly 3 months from when I first dropped car off and said it is now ready. I drive home and to work the next morning with no problem. On the way home from work, the temp gauge shoots up to the red. I stopped at my folks house to drop something off and then the car would not start. So after 3 months (and lots of $) nothing was fixed. I notice the temp gauge goes into the red and the amps are on 12 and I try to start the car and it does not click or whirl, nothing. Needless to say I was furious with the dealership and found another mechanic who has worked on Porsches for more than 25 years and came highly recommended. He did a total diagnostic review of the car and came to the conclusion it needed a starter and maybe I received a bad one (forgot to mention dealership also put a starter in). I drove the car for a week, took it on vacation to the Jersey shore and guess what...yesterday temp gauge in red, turn car off and it will not start! In summary, 3 batteries, 2 starters, and a new temp/fuel gauge.



What are your thoughts? What causes a starter to fail? Am I missing something obvious? I trust this new mechanic as he specializes in Porsches. What else can I tell him to check if anything has been overlooked? He is open to any ideas I have presented him with, but I am at my wits end! This summer was very traumatic. I loved my sales job with Merck and was blind sided when they laid me off after 12 years and being a consistent top performer. I need the Porsche more than ever and I need it to be dependable!



I think I changed my settings to forward replies, but just in case I didn't, please reply with ideas or send them to me at cschristyjr@yahoo.com



Thanks and I appreciate your ideas and that such a forum exists to solicit for them. I also know many of you have taken your cars apart and put them back together so I am sure you all know alot more than I do.



Thanks in advance for your help!

Steve

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[xrad]

sounds like electrical short draining the battery and likely shorting the starting circuit. It is a shame that you wasted your time and money at an incompetent dealer.



I would first make sure of the true engine temp. that way you can eliminate the cooling system as a source of the high temp reading. Next, does it start with a jump? that eliminates starter/ignition circuit.



next, check alternator output. you may have to run a new alternator/battery charge wire(the thick one---known to short out). Don't bother removing the old one(just unhook it at both ends and wrap), and run a new one from back of alternator to the battery.



next, if you still have hig temps, unhook the temp sender wire. see if the guage still reads high. this would indicate a short.



I find that it is unlikely for the guages to go bad, rather, there is a short.



If you still need a daily driver, sell the P and buy a used honda to hold you over.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[94SilverCab]

Sounds to me like you should call Pete at RS Barn and have it taken to a proven expert in 968 repairs and maintenance. I'm still betting water pump.



Regards,



Jay

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[flash]

the gauges do "go bad", but it is always the result of something else - there is a resistor that pops due to a short - stuff like that - but, that is a symptom and not a source of a problem



the problem does sound like it is a major short - the order of diagnosis is critical to actually finding the problem



the first thing i would do is check voltage while both static and running



then, i would check the nut on the back of the alternator that holds the main charge cable - i just found mine loose, and i had never touched the alternator - it caused me all kinds of problems



then i would check output amperage of the alternator



then, i would carefully inspect all main power wires, and seriously clean and tighten the main grounds



after that, i would check the readings again

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[csc71]

Oh Pete!

Out of sight out of mind I guess, I should have gone to him. Only problem is, every time I have to take the car for service, I have to inconvenience a family member and that is why I tend to choose somewhere local. If I get the car back and still have a problem, I will go to Pete, even if I have to walk home. Shame on me!



Thanks for the suggestions/scenarios. I will forward and please sleep on it and keep the advice coming!



Thanks again, Steve

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.