Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5

Why do we have to log in to read posts?
#1

The activity on this great board has diminished significantly. I used to visit all the time, but now just occasionally. I was wondering if there is a compelling reason to require users to log in just read posts?

Also, why are we requiring anyone to log in at all to just read posts? Non-members cannot just arrive and read up on what is going on and see if they want to join. This is a barrier to usage on both fronts and probably keeps away new members to some degree, and also drives down usage of existing members.

Very few forums I visit require users to log in just to read - perhaps this requirement is worth reconsidering?

Steve K.
Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.
Reply
#2

Interesting point. I routinely hit forums when I Google a potential answer to a question and then sometimes browse around. Security maybe? Dunno - I am sure that one of our esteemed admin/owners has an answer for you Steve. Don't be a stranger...
Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.
Reply
#3

The answer is "security". The site was being hammered by bots and spam.

If we could find a way to keep out the unwanted, I would be willing to explore opening up the content to readers. We'll discuss it with Flash when he returns.

Thanks for the comment,

Jay
Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.
Reply
#4

while you admin guys are exploring ways to fix the problem ... Steve, we must see that spectacular color in person - are you joining the Paso Robles meet ? If not can we convince you to join ( I'm buying [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif[/img] the first round of tasting at Tobin James if that's an incentive..) ?

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.
Reply
#5

i dont really have an issue logging in to read new content. it takes all of 10 seconds to do so. I figure; if 'm reading, i may want to post a reply or ask a question. Might as well be logged in. The fact that i needed to be logged in to just read some of the content actually made me join initially.
Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.
Reply
#6

...and I don't know about IE, but with firefox, my user:pass is "remembered" for me, so I don't even have to type anything to log in. It's a non-issue at that point...

But my phone doesn't remember it, so I have to log on then. ...But that's not very often. So at that point, I guess typing my info in is my 10-second fee for usage.
Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.
Reply
#7

first off, the reason this site works is the membership - the exchange and interaction are key to that - allowing people to read without joining is counter to that - we want participation, not just idle lurking - that's why we have "members" and not "readers"

second, it gives us the ability to track activity - this allows us to continue to adapt and change the site to suit those trends

then there is the spam problem, copyright issues, yada yada

as for activity slowing, it has actually gone up over the last few months - not sure why you think it has gone down - when i get back home i can get some stats for you if you like

if you are only hitting "view new posts" you are missing a lot - that tools is NOT completely effective, and i find it constantly skipping stuff, and no way to fix it at this time
Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

94 Midnight Metallic Blue Cab Porsche 968 w/deviating cashmere/black interior and WAY too many mods to list - thanks to eric for creating www.968forums.com



"It isn't nearly as expensive to do it right as it is to do it wrong."
Reply
#8

<!--quoteo(post=70956:date=Apr 28 2009, 07:32 AM:name=flash)-->QUOTE (flash @ Apr 28 2009, 07:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->if you are only hitting "view new posts" you are missing a lot - that tools is NOT completely effective, and i find it constantly skipping stuff, and no way to fix it at this time<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Oh sh1t......
Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.
Reply
#9

Regarding requiring a log in to read only, this is one of the only forums I visit that requires a log in. Generally, if a forum requires a log in just to try it, I move on - just a personal thing. Generally, in developing a web site, every click and action that a site requires to gain access results in lost users. Require a simple click, lose users, require entering info, even more lost users, require a log in, even greater lost potential users. One ends up paring a potential user base before even exposing them to the forum.

Also, the last ratio that I can recall, is that typically, forum users that simply read (lurkers) vs. those that post, is about 10 to 1. Personally I see nothing wrong with those that just read - each user that is just reading becomes that much more likely to eventually participate. For our forum, some folks may not be as immersed in 968's as others, but none-the-less have a high interest, and visit on occasion. Making the forum as accessible as possible sets the stage for a more vibrant forum long term.

Also, another idea to dismantle barriers to participation, ie: unnecessary clicks, would be to have 968forums.com point directly to the forum main page. For example the landing page could be what is now 968forums.com/index.php. See 924board.org. If one types in that address, they are in the forum directly. The easier things are, the more usage and more frequently visitors visit.

Regarding bots and spam, I am not sure what bots coming are terribly bad, as long as tools are in place to prevent automated posts and a log in should be required before one can post. Obviously one should not post an email address in a post that is in an easily recognizable format. Most bots coming are generally good, because they are looking at site content to populate the search engines that are the source of new users/members. There are exceptions, but the benefits generally outweigh the negatives.

One thing to remember, is that any person who posts, was once only a reader. Readers are the well for members. For the most part, readers are here for a reason, they have an interest in the forum. The process is generally for folks to first check things out and get comfortable with the community before signing up and posting.

Regarding tracking, one can analyze many aspects of usage whether someone is logged in or not - there are lots of tools for this - Google Analytics, 3DStats is great, other tools. One might want to do a test and track the bounce rate for new visitors - with reading allowed without signing in, and with signing in - my guess is that the bounce rate would be noticeably reduced if sign up were waived to read only. Might also consider a test of making the forum main page the home page and see the bounce rate there - and also measure forum activity with the home page landing one directly in the forum. No way of knowing for sure what would happen, but there is a good case it could be beneficial.

Just a few ideas based on some years of experience. Love the forum.

Alas, someone buying a first round is always a welcome incentive :-) however likely not going to make the Paso Robles run as I'll likely be east (where I get to fool with my 931 back there) but hopefully some upcoming SoCal gathering in the near future.

Also, please excuse me for just dropping in after not having visited frequently for a while and suggesting a bunch of things - just thought some of those mentioned might have actually effected my own visiting frequency.
Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.
Reply
#10

Steve,

Thank you for your contribution, you make some very fine points and I promise that we will take it under advisement.

I am also a member of other forums, which have varying degrees of membership/security to read/search/participate. Please remember that this is a very small community and that some of the technology available to larger sites may not be practical for this site.

We don't think that our log in or registration procedures are deflecting any serious 968 enthusiats, yet, I agree that there could be some benefit to opening up the readership. Give us a chance to explore the possibilities and we will do what we can.

Regards,

Jay
Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.
Reply
#11

i am dead set against a site that allows non-members - i really don't care about the numbers of members, but rather the active participants - frankly i wish that lurkers were not allowed at all and that everyone was required to post to be allowed to read, but i bowed to the others on that one - i won't budge on the membership though - this is a club, as much as a library and membership is a requirement (by the way, you have to have a library card to check out a book too)- however, it is and will always be free here, unlike other boards, so i see no reason that it should be a roadblock, and those who find it one are free and frankly welcome to move on

as for the address going to the index, that will not likely happen - in fact, there are plans to increase the information that is on the front page, which will NOT show up on the "view new posts" - there are also plans to block direct access to the index page - the front page will become a dynamic component of the site - just as it is now, "view new posts" will also not give immediate access to everything new on the site - what we want is people "cruising the mall" more than just "checking in" - we are looking for more of an interactive site than merely a "drive by" site

while this is and will always be the repository of all information 968, it is also a meeting place for friends - in the end all interest in cars comes down to the people involved - when they stop getting together, the interest dies

we want to discourage those who would just pop on, take what they want, hide in the shadows, and give nothing back - they do nothing to promote or perpetuate the 968 community, which extends beyond the short term interests of any sponsor or advertiser - we want instead to encourage those who would jump in and participate - this is the only way that the 968 stands any chance of continuing into the future

let's face facts - the 968 is a low production low interest car - that will never change - it is far better to have a smaller number of devoted members than a large number of passers-by
Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

94 Midnight Metallic Blue Cab Porsche 968 w/deviating cashmere/black interior and WAY too many mods to list - thanks to eric for creating www.968forums.com



"It isn't nearly as expensive to do it right as it is to do it wrong."
Reply
#12

If you have cookies enabled and log on from the same IP address, you can simply close the browser and come back as many times as you wish without having to log back on each time. Once you log on from a different IP, then you will have to log back on each time a new IP is used. Obviously, there is a link between the username and the IP...is there an expiration timer set on that? I'm usually only on at work and at home, so once I log on, I'm set unless I log on from another location throughout the day. I'm sure there are a few more technical details as far as keeping the bots and spammers out, but I don't have a problem with the logging on requirement.

- Darryl

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.
Reply
#13

Well, I am only a member and not a site owner or an administrator, however I appreciate the opportunity as a site user to throw in my 2 cents worth.

I would just add that 'lurkers' (not the best word) are merely potential future 'members' and by discouraging them even mildly, by requiring extra clicks or registration, results with the site ending up with fewer members. (No one is a more likely future member than the person that arrives at 968Forums.com on their own volition.)

Also, the comparison to a library is well received, however keep in mind although one needs to 'register' at a library to check out a book, one generally need do nothing more than walk in the door to read any material in that library. And note that no one is going to check out a book unless they first walk in the door.

I personally, simply do not see the negative in allowing folks that are interested in 968's, perhaps prospectively, to review the material in the forums as easily as possible, when the site is in fact free. I have heard the arguments against, but just do not see the logic, other than the feeling someone should not enjoy that they did not toil to create. However, aren't we generous, passionate enthusiasts? Everyone here at the forum has been incredibly forthcoming with any question, problem or in just talking about these cars.

By not being as accessible as is possible, my guess is that the forum shall at some point in time loose engaged users faster than it gains them, as existing owners slowly sell their cars (hopefully not for a long time if ever!) and with a steadily diminishing supply of cars changing hands. Not a problem with this as long as enough users remain for critical mass.

Just wanted to do this last follow up. Again, thank you for the opportunity. No more from me on this. However feel free to call on me in the future if I can be of assistance in regard to any of the above.

Anyway, look forward to continuing to use this great resource and to interact with my fellow 968 enthusiasts. And thanks to those who own and run the site for the benefit of us all.

Just for reference developed from member stats:

# of---------------# of
members---------posts

1-----------------10,000+
2------------------2,000+
7------------------1,000+
18-----------------999 - 500
92-----------------499 - 100
85-----------------99 - 50
276----------------49 - 10
496----------------9 - 1
3523---------------0
Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.
Reply
#14

i completely agree that those people are potential future participants, and i hope that happens - however, i have the choice of providing a safe and secure place for those who participate now, and a place where every yahoo on the planet can come and poach things - frankly i just don't want that kind of place anyway - i don't throw parties where wallflowers show up either

as for the stats, remember that we inherited a LOT of members who are not real, and are actually just spammers - there are still about 2000 of them - i am sorting through those bit by bit and deleting them - yes, i realize this is at the risk of deleting someone who actually wanted to read something - no worries - they can rejoin

having the IP tools which allow visibility of each and every login is critical, and inescapable - i'm sorry if this presents a problem, but it isn't going to get any better either

by the way, why don't you pop in to one of our great socal events sometime?
Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

94 Midnight Metallic Blue Cab Porsche 968 w/deviating cashmere/black interior and WAY too many mods to list - thanks to eric for creating www.968forums.com



"It isn't nearly as expensive to do it right as it is to do it wrong."
Reply
#15

Personally, I am quite alright having to log in to view things. I am not obligated to pay so no problem. I simply log in when I get to work then I can pop on whenever I want thanks to the cookies. If I am home, same deal, I log in once and I am good to go for the rest of the day. If I switch computers or locations, gotta log in again, but no biggie. Every morning, I need to log in to my computer just to get the damn thing to start....

With Rennlist, for example, you don't have to be a member to read regular posts, but it is required to access the for sale & OT sections and to see posted pictures. That membership requires a manditory fee. And, without getting into a polarized political discussion, it is seriously frowned upon to stick up for or mention vendors who are not sponsors. I do not like that at all, especially since you pay to be a member.

I can post and view pictures to my heart's content here without having to spend a single dime... I also feel that my opinions, as long as they are not personally offensive or aggressive to other members, will not be censored here. If I ever get censored, I expect it will be for something heinous. If it isn't for something that I have done wrong, then I'll move on and won't look back. If the rules change here and a membership fee is required, you won't see me here anymore. In addition, if the rules changed and basic membership was not required to participate, you won't see me here anymore as well.

I really like the way it is set up and the (extremely) minor inconvenience of having to enter an ID and password once a day is far outweighed by the plethora of benefits this site and its members have to offer.

And yes, for the record, I did donate to the Forums to help the owners maintain/upgrade/moderate/improve the site.

Steve- I hope you stick around and become more active. This place is awesome and the members really go out of their way to help. I anticipate that I will become more and more active as time goes on and I learn more about these cars.
Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.
Reply
#16

I second what Bio said. I have to sign into every single intranet site I want to access, log into VPN to get my email...the world is full of logons and one more doesn't hurt.
Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.
Reply
#17

[quote name='biotechee' date='Apr 29 2009, 08:53 AM' post='71020

With Rennlist, for example, you don't have to be a member to read regular posts, but it is required to access the for sale & OT sections and to see posted pictures. That membership requires a manditory fee. And, without getting into a polarized political discussion, it is seriously frowned upon to stick up for or mention vendors who are not sponsors. I do not like that at all, especially since you pay to be a member.

[/quote]
Biotechee that is incorrect. With Rennlist, to view pics all you need to do is register with them, no payment needed, just like here. Just setting the record straight that's all.
Don
Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.
Reply
#18

the rest of what he said true however.
Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.
Reply
#19

Ahh- Don you are correct. My apologies. Was not my intention to mislead.
Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.
Reply
#20

Flash, hope to meet some of the group soon at some upcoming So Cal gathering. Unfortunately haven't been focusing on the 968 lately, but have my Dynatech stuff coming in any time now so expect to re-immerse myself.

S.
Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.
Reply


Possibly Related Threads…
Thread / Author Replies Views Last Post

Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)