[flash]

i've seen this in the news over the years, and while some places are adding red light cameras, others are banning them.



it seems completely illogical to me to ban them. they make intersections safer, and prevent red light running. here in l.a. people seem to think that red means that two more cars can go. they also seem to think that it's ok to pull out into the intersection and stop. neither of these is legal.



the argument that it is causing rear end collisions from people stopping suddenly is full of holes too. if that were the case, then it only meant that somebody was following too closely, and they should be cited. there is a real problem with following too closely, but making intersections less safe by not having cameras is not the answer. the answer is to cite people for following too closely. perhaps other cameras that catch that are in order. perhaps computer controlled cars that disallow getting that close is the answer. regardless, red light cameras are not the problem.



clearing up some of the legal stuff:

at no time may you stop in the middle of the intersection, any more than you can stop in the middle of the street.



if you cannot safely complete your passage through the intersection BEFORE the light turns red, then you are not to begin your passage. if the intersection is not clear, you must stop behind the limit line.



yellow means SLOW DOWN and prepare to stop. it does not mean jam on it and get through.







the only reason i can find for people to object to the cameras is that they might get a ticket. the simple solution for this is not to run the light.



i realize that the companies that administer these things charge so much that the cameras are not always profitable. there are two answers to that.



first, safety does not have to make a profit, but it usually does. if you factor in the reduced amount of time writing accident reports for fender benders, i am willing to bet that the profit is actually there.



second, ignoring the second part of the above, just raise the fine to make it profitable. that will not only solve the initial cost issue, but also further reduce the incidents, thereby further increasing the profit from the reduced reports.



some people seem to think that it would take longer to get through the intersection if they stopped and waited for the next light. it is a proven fact that if everybody actually stopped, and didn't clog up the intersections, traffic actually flows faster. the fact that intersections have to wait to be cleared of the idiots stopped in them is what slows down traffic.



these cameras are a no brainer. frankly i think they should be video cameras. we need to stop catering to the selfish, and start giving them tickets and retraining how they drive.



contact your local city council and get these installed.

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[Ryan]

"the only reason i can find for people to object to the cameras is that they might get a ticket. the simple solution for this is not to run the light."



The same reasoning can also be applied to our phone conversations being listened to.



[color="#282828"]I don't like people running red light either, however I also don't like the idea of cameras watching our every move. The government has become much too secretive and unaccountable in its surveillance of the general public in my mind and it is just one more thing that could be misused. [/color]



Big brother is watching you.

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[flash]

the two are not in any way similar. red light cameras are only triggered when somebody breaks the law. they aren't watching your every move (though i see the argument for them being able to do that too). they are only capturing evidence of a crime. just to be clear, traffic violations are crimes.



there is a common misconception that you have any right to privacy in your car. you don't. once you step outside the door, your privacy ends. they are public streets. anything that happens on them is in public view.



there is also a common misconception that you are allowed to do what you want in your car. you aren't. you are granted a license to drive a car, based on first passing some tests, and under the agreement that you sign to obey all traffic laws, and that there would be monitoring and enforcement of those laws. that in no way allows you to break them when you find it convenient. it in no way means that you won't be closely monitored, in whatever way is deemed necessary, to maintain the public safety.



misuse would be a problem, but to date, there has been no evidence, or even to my knowledge a complaint brought, to indicate that this information is being misused. there is no more information there than you could gather standing on the corner.



i don't like big brother any more than the next guy, and would fight tooth and nail to protect privacy, but this is not a situation where that is relevant.

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[Ryan]

The running red-light thing is more of a big city thing as we don't have the problem here for the most part, however when I have been to NY city it seems like 4 cars go through on red and that is expected. This is one reason I don't share your passion.



I just don't like the constant addition of "checks" on our daily life. I just don't know where it will end. Once you accept a few things it becomes OK for the next addition and before you know it, It is a police state. Kind of like the police getting military surplus till they look just like the military when they show up.



I know the world is changing, but I miss the simpler times I guess.

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[flash]

if it isn't a problem, then obviously there is no need for them. i am not suggesting that we automatically put them in everywhere. i am saying that when we have a situation of people running the lights or jamming up the intersections, the cameras are needed. the idea that one should "expect" stupidity is ludicrous. 2 wrongs don't make a right, let alone 4.



frankly cities like that should not allow private traffic at all. it should be all public transit. it's often faster to walk in nyc, which is why so many people do it.



regardless, i understand the argument, but those simpler times are long gone. there are way too many people now to expect the anarchy to work. urban areas need more controls, because people are selfish. they won't do it on their own, so they have to be trained. you wouldn't just let your dog go peeing all over the house would you?

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[biosurfer1]

How about they should take them out because they don't work and increase accidents?



http://www.motorists.org/red-light-camer...-accidents



You say that is because people are following too closely and should be cited too, how about adding another camera for that too? Where does it end? Seems to me they could install cameras for every type of infraction if they can do it for one.

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[lbpesq]

How about exterior and interior view cameras in every car! The we can bust everyone who uses a cell phone. And we can have a camera in each car pointed at the speedometer - bust every speeder automatically!. And why stop there. How about cameras in every home. If you're not doing anything illegal, why would you mind? And, of course, we must have cameras in every bedroom to catch those sickos who have sex in unusual ways! Yes cameras everywhere!!!! It's the American way!!!!



Now removing tongue from cheek, this whole camera/surveillance thing is scary. Especially when you consider that the enforcement arm of the gov't, the cops, who love all these cameras, put their foot down with a resounding "no" when its suggested that all cop cars should be equipped with cameras - about the only gov't cameras that I support.



Bill

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[flash]

actually, they do work, and they reduce intersection accidents, which are the ones that kill people. the rear end collisions that were increased were due entirely to following too closely. this is also a serious problem, and the more congested our roads get, the more it becomes a problem. i regularly see people running 2 car lengths behind the car in front of them, barreling down the road at 80. that is just plain stupid, and should be stopped. we should not be saying "we shouldn't fix this one problem, because it would increase another one". we should be saying "we need to fix both problems".



some cars are now coming with an automatic braking when you get too close. this should be standard in all cars.



i'm just like everybody else. i love to drive, and i love to drive fast. i am too lazy to go to the track, so i do it where i shouldn't. but i would give it up if it meant less time stuck in traffic because some bonehead jammed up an intersection, or wasn't paying attention and banged into the car in front of him.



we get all nutty about safety for our kids, and panic when we think there might be something in the water that's bad for us. what we don't do anything about is the idiot commuter that puts everybody else at risk driving his 500hp benz, yacking on the cell phone, riding somebody's ass and running lights, all so he can get to starbucks before going to work.



driving is a privilege, not a right. it should be far more restricted than it is now.

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[flash]

oh - and yes:



i would love to see implementation of things that prohibited the use of a cell phone by the driver while driving.



i would love to see implementation of a device that limited speeding on roads other than highways.



i would love to see a device that prohibited a car from entering an intersection unless it was clear.



that being said, i am also a proponent of unlimited highway speed. of course i think that to be able to take advantage of it, you should have a car and driving skills capable of it.



the ideas of the 50s have to be left behind. we are no longer a nation of 130million. with that congestion comes the reality of less freedom. when the old west got settled, we stopped carrying sidearms (unless you are from compton). similarly with millions of people in a small congested area like our big cities, it's time to give up the things we used to have, and start acting responsibly. we don't need cars that go 175mph to get to work (sorry dr cosby). in those areas, we are really ready for cars that are centrally controlled, and nothing more than a conveyance. maybe that's sad, but it's reality.



by the way, i'm one of those sickos who has sex in unusual ways and has a camera in my bedroom to catch it. the problem is that i'm married, so the unusual part about it is the infrequency, and i have the camera to remind me what it was like.

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[bombfactory]

I have to wonder how long til always-on dash cams (that provide us so much YouTube hilarity) are a mandatory item here in the US.



As for red light cams, I can give no reasonable argument, but I just don't like them. Perhaps it's just the creepy physical reminder of the Big Brother state, I don't know. I mean, we all know there are security cameras watching our every move just about everywhere we go these days, why is it that the red light cam somehow crosses the line and makes us uncomfortable?



To Flash's point that that traffic violations are a crime, I think the issue is this: We've all gone through yellow lights where the light has changed to red before we were completely out of the intersection - heck, sometimes it happens multiple times a day, with no harm, no foul, right? Now if you got a $400 dollar ticket and points on your driving record every time that happened, you'd be pissed. Why? Because our innate sense of fairness would cry foul - the punishment does not fit the 'crime'.



One possible solution to the red light runner accident is simple, but will never be implemented because it raises no revenue: Standardize the length of yellow lights nationwide and add a second or two delay between the red light and the opposing light turning green. Might help, no Big Brother necessary.

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[biosurfer1]

[quote name='flash' timestamp='1412870936' post='162889']



some cars are now coming with an automatic braking when you get too close. this should be standard in all cars.



[/quote]



doh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_83efj9Xdg

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[flash]

the thing you have to remember, and what many people do not understand about red light cameras, is that they do not trigger unless you enter the intersection AFTER the light has turned yellow. the yellow light goes on, then the camera is put into "ready" mode. if a car enters the intersection after that, the camera takes a picture. pretty straight forward. you are guilty. ticket issued. you wouldn't do it in front of a cop. that's the mind set that needs to be accepted.



properly timed (and this goes to the "standardization" reference, this means that no driver should ever be caught accidentally in the intersection. again, unless you have a full expectation of completion of the passage BEFORE the light turns red, then you don't enter.



these cameras are no different than having a cop at the intersection, except that they are better proof of the violation than witness testimony. that's why people really object to them. it has nothing to do with big brother, or invasion of privacy. that's all smoke and mirrors rhetoric. it has only to do with the fact that people won't be able to get away with breaking the law. it's really no different than the fact that we have a huge number of radar CHP cars on the local toll road. it's a great road for driving fast, but the likelihood of getting a ticket is very high, so most people drive slower. enforcement works.



re: brake technology - of course we need to improve it. that doesn't mean we shouldn't have it. the next time you are driving down the road, take a look at the cars on the side from an accident. more than 90% of the non DUI highway accidents are from following too closely, and not counting parking lots, more than 60% of in town accidents are from failure to properly enter or exit an intersection.

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[Chris Vais]

I don't mind red light cameras in the least. A guy I that flew with, completed 2 combat tours, flew combat aircraft for 23 years, was killed driving a Porsche that I helped him buy. He was hit by a red light runner in an SUV and died at the scene. You have nothing to fear from these cameras if you don't run red lights and who knows they might just save your life.



You know what I consider the biggest surveillance threat? Some civilian with a drone and camera casing my house. I've already got a shot gun loaded and ready and I have every intension of splashing as many as I can. Who knows, maybe I'll make "Ace".

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[Bulti]

Hey Flash, we can't help you being married and not getting any. Join the club and stop being so politically correct. :-))

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[94SilverCab]

http://bancams.com/get-the-facts/myths-vs-facts/



Jay

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[biosurfer1]

"You have nothing to fear from these cameras if you don't run red lights and who knows they might just save your life."



-Big Brother motto

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[biosurfer1]

Let's hope cops don't use the camera's to go shopping for their next ride...because they would never do that, right?



https://autos.yahoo.com/news/how-cops-ta...03712.html

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[Bulti]

Great vid! Should I laugh or cry?

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[Rap]

I sorta feel bad for all of you big city type folks with all your modern technology and all the agita it seems to cause. Up here in the mountains we ain't got those problems. We don't have red lights. We don't have street lights. Now with archery season in full swing and deer season coming well that's some more critters on the road to contend with, but heck it feeds the less fortunate. Now don't get me wrong, City life, what passes for it anyway here in Pensyltucky, ain't that far away and camera's on streets to watch are all around thanks to big brother. But there are no complaints there since the liberals have given such easily obtainable entitlements and encouraged a great sucking sound of criminals from the big cities that they come in handy when catching the bad guys. I'd like lasers on the cameras to prevent crime when it's noticed. Think how much we could save then?



Can't say I would think about discussing what goes on in my bedroom, but then I've been racked with Catholic guilt all my life. Poor poor pitiful me! Lol

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[Lear35A]

Some think government can solve problems, others are pretty sure it causes them. I don't run red lights. I'm never in such a rush that I'd want to risk life and limb to save a couple of minutes. OTOH I am totally against red light cameras. They are put in under the guise of safety, but sadly are really just an income generator. (No different than artificially low speed limits to get cash for the insatiable govt coffers) Hence the frequent shortening of the yellow light segment coincident with the installation of the camera.

And a cop at the intersection is vastly different than a camera. Cameras and the computers that run them can and do fail. At least a cop can be cross examined in court. (Everyone does realize that one accused of a crime has the right to defend himself in a court of law, right?)

And the slippery slope of govt surveillance frankly goes without saying to me anyway.

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