[kodomokid]

Hello Doc,



I have no experience of the Generals on my 968, but I do have experience with them vs. Pirelli PZero Nero MS on my Audi S6. The Generals are okay but I was always a little nervous when driving in the wet with them. These were brand new tires too. Everytime I hit standing water at speed, you could feel the hydroplaning and the resistance as it went through the water. I had a chance to drive my Pirelli's through a pretty good rainfall and standing water on the freeway. I was thoroughly impressed by the way the tires felt so stable in the rain. Hardly any resistance. It felt it was in contact with the road the whole time. In the dry, the Generals felt fine but to me they were quite noisy. The Pirelli's were noticeably quieter. Now noise level is subjective with out equipment to measure the levels, but to me they were somewhat quieter. In all I am lot happier with my Pirelli's over the Generals. In fact I couldn't wait to get the General's off of my car. I am not sure why the Generals get such a high rating. I think it's because they are cheap. I would rather get the Pirelli's, the Avon M550, or the BF g-Force Sport if you're looking for a lower priced tire that has good ratings. I have the BF's on my Corrado. Like them in the dry but they are a little hard and not as grippy as other summer tires out there. I know you said that you will track them so I am not sure how well these tires will work for that.



My tire specs:

245/40/17 Generals on 8x17

235/45/17 Pirelli PZero Nero MS on 8x17

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[VGM911]

[quote name='flash' post='36666' date='Jun 8 2007, 02:37 PM']first, i am stunned a bit that i am taking the conservative position here, as i am usually the proponent of all things maximum performance



this one is give and get, and very situational - the tire i choose for the denali is not the same tire i choose for the bmw and not the same as for the 968, even though the first two are driven at pretty much the same speeds and situations, they need very different tires for different reasons



that being said, 16s define limits all by themselves - can you actually see the limits of a high performance tire on them? likely not - is there a big difference between w and y on this car? likely not - sure there is a huge difference between an h and a y, and i don't think anybody is questioning the need for a performance tire, but one needs to consider the limitations of the rest of the car



that is why i put the RE750 on the bmw and not the S0-3 - that car will never need the S0-3, and actually would drive worse with it - while it might corner a bit better, it would wander a lot more, and be a rougher ride, and with the stock suspension, would probably be a bit twitchy when the tire flexed



ultimate performance is not the only thing to be considered in choosing a tire on a street car, and my gut says that a y over a w on this car on 16s is gilding the lily[/quote]





Flash,



When I see you taking the approach of "less" when it comes to the performance aspect of this thread, I'm suprised, too! Could it be that the earth is off its axis?



Let me first say that some (and perhaps most) drivers never exploit the full potential of their Porsches. I include myself in this category since I don't autocross my 911, nor do I participate in DE events or club racing. Although ten years of autocrossing are behind me, these days I find that I like to drive "briskly" on the road whenever I can in order to extract whatever performance is available to me, being sensible about it and without being a danger to others or myself.



I enjoy "fun run" events in particular where the pace is quick and the roads are challenging for car and driver alike, and I feel that although I'm not driving at 10/10s as one might be during a race or autocross, I'm sometimes driving at eight or nine tenths during portions of these fun events.



Now, as Porsche owners, we can decide to:



1. Make our cars better by modifying them with aftermarket parts (as you have done, with great success);



2. Keep them original by using Porsche/OEM equivalent parts/Porsche-recommended parts, in order to maintain the level of specification and performance with which the car was built; or



3. Replace worn/broken parts with lower spec or lesser quality replacements that may degrade the car's safety or performance.



I've been following the second path - I admit to using Porsche anti-freeze, 0W-40 Mobil 1, and N-spec tires, for example. However, I recognize that some people choose the third path because of budget limitations or because the owner is not aware (or convinced) that the parts selected are a lesser specification or lower quality with the potential for a negative impact on performance capability/safety.



With regard to tire selection, I suppose someone can talk himself out of an N-spec tire or willingly purchase a lower spec tire because they don't ever push their car to the upper limits of its performance. If we assume that this kind of choice reduces upper limit dynamic capabilities, then I wonder why one is driving a Porsche in the first place.



I'm not being critical of Doc for looking at the Generals, and he's doing some important homework by looking at survey results on the Tire Rack website. But as the Frank Ranelli article points out (see the corrected link in my post #19), not only do lower spec tires impact performance at the limits, they also provide less performance in everyday driving.



So what does all this rambling mean? Tires are important, and we're driving high performance sports cars. In my mind, the tires should be up to the job. When I'm whizzing around an on-ramp or off-ramp, the last thing I want to worry about is whether or not the tires are up to the task.



Peace.

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[flash]

i think the part we are missing in the "n" spec conversation is what that spec really means



there are so many differences in tire performance, and what does one thing on one car does not do the same thing on a different model car - i find it hard to believe that any spec is cross applicable - it is much more likely that they saw a tire that fit the general minimum specs of their cars, much as they have done with everything else



does "N" spec apply to our car specifically? what size tire? M030 or standard? 16 or 17? are we to believe that an "N" spec tire is good for all porsches?



we know that tires today perform better than tires from 14 years ago



is "N' spec today the same as what was "N" spec 14 years ago? if not, the argument for remaining "stock" is invalid - if it is, then we are choosing a substandard tire



if "N" spec today is better than "N" spec from 14 years ago, what impacts does it have on the rest of the car (bushings, etc) - that extra traction has to send the load somewhere



i understand the point being made, that retaining the car the way it was designed has merit - that is why they have vintage class - however, in that class, you have to search for the tires of yesteryear



by the way, mobil 1 is no longer the same mobil 1, and actually has issues now - what does that mean to the "do it like they specced it" concept?



as for tire selection, my feelings are that you should choose a tire based on the needs of the driver and the particular car and conditions to which it will be subjected, and not what some third party thinks is good for everybody - we've seen porsche be very wrong about a lot of things on this car, and i have no reason to think they are really thinking about the 968 much when they pick tires for the 911 - i'm not suggesting that anybody go one direction or another, but rather whichever way specifically suits them best

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[RPM]

Possible 'N' -spec definition=



Yet another way for Porsche dealers to charge exorbinate prices to unsuspecting rich guys who bought the car of their dreams.

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[flash]

lol - i wasn't going to say that, but i'm glad somebody did

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[968Z]

I too, have the UHP's on my DD (2003 Saab Aero). Down here in the south, a summer tire is a year round tire. Saab Aero's are notorious for eating tires due to the agressive setup of the suspension and front wheel drive. 18,000 miles on any set of tires is a huge bonus. I have to say thet have been quite a surprise. They stay quiet, pretty good wear pattern, and 25,000 miles. I've got about 5K left on them, with a little luck.

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