[Ash]

Hi - without cutting into the rear glove boxes or any other cutting, can anyone recommend a Subwoofer and amp, and a location to put them? I am planning to replace all of the speakers as well, and put in the head unit I just purchased - The Becker CDR 220.

 

Thanks very much!

 

 

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[flash]

there are a couple of footwell subs out there, but they are pretty weak, and they will be in the way of anybody over 5'4".  no subwoofer in the trunk will push the sound into the passenger compartment.  there is no room in the rear side panels for anything either.  i had a bazooka tube at one point back there, but it was marginal too.

 

start by dynamatting the entire car.  that will go a long way toward keeping your low frequency stuff in the car, rather than being a muddy distorted mess.

 

then, you can put 6.5" speakers up front in the doors, if you are willing to cut into the panels.

 

not a lot of options for a cab.  believe me, i tried.  i spent $5k putting my system together to resolve exactly the problem you are trying to resolve.

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[94SilverCab]

Flash's car sounded like a concert hall, when sitting in the garage. On the road with the top down you may as well have a transistor radio from the 60's.

 

I like the sound of the headers.

 

JMHO

 

Jay 

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[flash]

lol - i finally nailed it so that the system still sounded good top down on the road.  it just took adding more speakers and power - imagine that

 

cabs really are tough.  they just didn't put the speakers in good spots.  ultimately i had to change that to get good sound

 

that being said, adding the dynamat made probably the single biggest difference in the sound quality.  it was amazing at how much road noise and such was interfering with the output.

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[jimham968]

Flash - Where in order of priority should I add the Dynamat in my cab? I've done the passenger door because I had to fix the locking mechanism and plan on doing the driver side next since I have the Dynamat, but what's next?

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[flash]

doors (on the outside skin, not the inside one)

rear wheel wells and behind rear speakers

rear deck under the carpet

spare tire well

rear cubbies

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[az968]

Flash, you didn't do the floor? I'm planning to do my coupes shortly and was thinking about doing the floor.

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[flash]

lol - no - not sure my medical insurance would deal with the self-inflicted wounds as a result of dealing with removing the carpet.  i'm sure i don't have enough wine for that.

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[MLB]

I just considered that goo to BE the Dynamat, and left it at that :0)

Hey flash, did you sell that subwoofer enclosure that replaces the rear cubby? That was pretty slick.

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[flash]

yup - long gone

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[Ryan]

I don't know if you can still get the Bazooka Tubes but I have one in the trunk of the cab (10") and it really sounds great.  I have an Infinity Basslink in my truck that take us very little space and sounds much larger than it's size. It would work in the cab as well.

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[flash]

funny how opinions vary on this stuff.  some people don't care.  some only listen to NPR.  some want concert sound.  others are in the middle.  i am uncompromising when it comes to audio.  i don't need or want it particularly loud.  i just want to hear all of the music, and with the top down.  i don't want the top and particularly the bottom to go away when the wind starts making a racket.

 

i wrestled with this for 10 years, with an unlimited budget, and all the time in the world.  i installed 5 different systems, 4 different decks, 4 different sets of speakers, 3 different amplifier setups, 3 different equalizers, and a slew of other stuff, all to get clean sound in a cab.  i think i can speak with authority on the problems of getting good sound into this car, what things can and need to be modified, and what things you have to live with.

 

i tried the 10" bazooka in the trunk, and also tried the 8" right behind the seats.  i found both extremely lacking.  bazookas in general are pretty mushy.  better than nothing, but not by much.  that being said, i only tried the self-powered variety, and maybe it was the amplifier itself that they come with that was the problem.

 

really though, nothing penetrates the seat backs with clarity.  the only way anything in the trunk could even be heard with the top down was to have the seat backs flipped down, which is unacceptable.that is the problem with the cab.  anything put in the trunk is just low mid rumble.  there is really nothing below 80hz that makes it forward.

 

i even tried the KLA boxes.  no better. 

 

low frequency sound travels slower than high frequency sound.  that means that the woofers need to be closer to you than the other speakers.  also, the effectiveness of the woofer is dependent upon how much air it can push.  this air is diffused when the car is open.  this eliminates the trunk straight away.  the farthest away they can be is behind the seats.  they really should be right behind your back.

 

the factory position for the woofers would be "ok" for woofers only, if you could get one in there that pushed some air.  unfortunately nothing you can put there will effectively go below 80hz, which means no kick drum and weak bass guitar.  for the amount of range they expect those speakers to drive, the placement is just nuts.  my hips can't hear a thing.  why would you ask a speaker placed there to do anything other than to thump?  the crossover point is way too high, and all of the low mid is lost.

 

i did better by installing 6.5" JL Audio woofers in the doors.  in fact, that's all the blue car has now, and it's pretty good.  not as good as with the twin 8" woofers in the sub enclosure, but they work well, and are fine with the top up.  it's only with the top down that i think they could use more support.  the current owner thinks they are fine.  it did mean cutting into the door panels though.

 

the factory speakers actually don't suck.  the power and deck they drive them with does.  the complete lack of sound treatment in the car is the other big problem.

 

start with good sound treatment.  dynamat the heck out of the car.

 

then get a deck that puts out clean sound.  it must have some equalization features.  simple bass and treble will not do in this car.  failing to do that is "garbage in - garbage out".  choosing a deck because it "looks right" is insane.  if you do that, and it doesn't sound good, you might as well leave the stock deck in there, and just leave it turned off.  function over form guys!

 

then use clean amplifiers.  no, the deck won't do it, no matter how much is "says" it puts out.  again more "garbage in - garbage out"

 

this will get you a LONG way toward being happy.  after that, you get to start playing with better speakers, and better speaker placement.

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[Ryan]

Flash I have a passive 10" bazooka with an Alpine amp driving it. I do keep one of the seat flaps down and the sound is far from mushy. I don't expect the sound to be the same while I am driving 60 mph but I tend to drive with the windows up at least half way to help capture the sound. The sound is pretty good with this set up.

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[flash]

yeah - the seat down thing is a non-starter.  way too much other extraneous noise coming from the trunk.  also did not want to give up the security of the trunk, or the trunk space.

 

maybe if you have 300 watts driving it, the crossover set at about 110, and it pointed forward, you might get a bit of a punch, but it's so far back that i doubt it.  even with the subs right behind me, firing straight up, i had to drive a lot of power into it, and still it wasn't as much as i would have liked.  i want to feel the thump of the kick drum, not just have 120-140hz rumble swirling around.  properly set up, subs are more felt than heard.

 

like i said - lots of opinions on what is acceptable, and what is not

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[Ash]

I am afraid to ask Flash, but what do you think of the Becker CDR 220 Head Unit. It looks great in the box. I have not installed it yet. Has the Porsche logo - all black head unit. Here are the specs

 

Output power - 4 x 18 Watt

 

Loudspeaker impedance - min 4

 

Supply voltage - 12 volt

 

There is speed dependent volume control. Also Bass, Treble, Balance, Fader, Loudness, Linear adjustment

 

What kind of Amp would you recommend if I am just replacing the existing speakers, without cutting. My Cab came with a six speaker system. The Becker allows for 8 speakers though. Would I used the extra two slots to  add two subwoofers ? - each on the floor behind the front seats?

 

Thanks

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[flash]

what is the distortion rating on the deck?  that will tell you how well the internal amp will do, but 18 watts will not provide enough power to audibly drive anything below about 200hz with the top down.  you will need a bigger amp.  there are some small ones that fit easily under the dash.  rockford fosgate makes a nice one.

 

the speed dependent volume control is an interesting and useful feature, particularly in a cab.  you will need to connect to the speed sensor wire of course.  there is a thread on that here.

 

the lack of an equalizer will be the real falldown point of that deck.  without it, you will not be able to tune the sound to deal with the poor speaker placement porsche gave us.  regardless of what speakers you choose, if you are looking for any sort of accurate audio, you will be sorely disappointed.  you will constantly be frustrated by the honky midrange, over-sizzly high end, and muddy bottom.  there are some frequencies that are problematic that you just can't fix with simple bass and treble.

 

again though, none of this will make any difference without dynamatting the car.

 

it's always a compromise between aesthetics and sound.  i am a function over form guy, so it is more important to me that it sound good than look a particular way.  if i was after a particular look, i would leave the stock deck in there and just leave it turned off.  no matter how OEM it may look, anything but the original deck is still an aftermarket deck, and hurts resale value to those who want original.  a good sounding system is a plus to those who actually want to enjoy driving the car.  never an easy decision.

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