[peartree]

Happy New Year!



Upgrading my 968's stereo seems like a good new year's resolution...



I spent some time yesterday perusing the old forum topics and learned a few things, but I still need some advice. I have a '94 coupe with the base (6-speaker) stereo. The previous owner put in a CD deck (Blau RPD440), which appears to be an older, inexpensive head unit. I beleive all the stock speakers are working. The system sounds like it's playing in a tin can. No combination of adjustments to bass or treble seems to really work.



I'd like to first just change out the head unit. If possible, I'd like to avoid changing out the speakers. Should I expect much improvement from this change alone?



I'm not looking for pro sound, but I'd like something decent. Also, I'd like to add satellite radio. The esthetics of the deck are important, too. I'm not a big fan of the multicolor animated displays.



I've read in other posts that a parametric equalizer is important to improve the sound. What is the difference between a parametric equalizer and a graphic equalizer?



One of the units I'm considering is the Pioneer Premier DEH-P880PRS, which is not carried at Crutchfield, but is available at some online retailers. It looks like a pretty sophisticated piece and I'm wondering if this would stand a chance of improving the sound with the stock speakers. Here's a few details of the deck:



Exclusive PRS High Quality Sound Design

Unprecendented control for the purest sound.



Dual (L/R) 16-Band Graphic EQ for unprecendented control

Auto EQ easily creates a baseline equalization for your vehicle

Auto Time Alignment adjusts for speaker placement and creates exceptional staging and imaging

Burr-Brown DACs for the purest sound

Hi-Volt (5V) Pre-Outs



Check out (if you're interested) http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/v3/p...1159496,00.html



Thanks in advance for any help!

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[Ryan]

Sounds like a nice head unit, but the stock speakers are going to drag you down. They are not capable of putting out any low end punch. If you do not switch out the stock speakers you should consider a small powered sub. This will help big-time in losing the tin can sound.



I just got a Infinity Bass-link for my Tundra and put it behind the bench seat. The unit is small and has a 10" active and a 10" passive combined with 200 watts of power. This fills out the sound very well. Crutchfield has these units at $100.00 off their normal price.



My 968 has a 10" Bazooka tube and kicks some bass. I also have JL audio separates for the main speakers.



Hope this helps.

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[huskydog]

I put the Alpine CDA9856 in the 968. For me the high speed i-pod connection was more important than satellite. New speakers and an amp are a must. Mine is a cabrio and the sound with the top down is still great.

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[flash]

i have the 980BT and love it - very flexible - i would have preferred a parametric EQ, but at least there are enough bands in the graphic EQ to get me there - as an audio engineer, i am pretty picky about my systems, and this head unit gave me almost everything i wanted (love the bluetooth too)



that being said, the bottom end capability of the stock speakers is going to be the limiting factor - there are options, and they are nearly limitless



feel free to email me to discuss this further - we could get very tangled here in the endless list of features and choices and preferences

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[Bob]

Just installed a Kenwood EZ5000 and a Bazooka 8" powered sub. I think I will add some 6x9's to the cubbies, and move the Bazooka to the back seat instead of the trunk.

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[Darryl]

I concur with those above...the stock speakers are crap - small magnets and paper cones. You won't even begin to realize the difference in head unit unless the speakers are replaced. Powered sub and/or amp to drive a separeate sub will only add to the experience.



- Darryl

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[flash]

lol - aw come on - they aren't that bad - i've definitely heard worse factory speakers



if used only as mids, and you don't push them, they are ok - the tweeters are fine as is - i'm still using the stock tweeters and am happy with them, though the p.o. did swap out the lower speakers in the doors for infinity reference and i swapped the rear 4x6 yamahas he had for some 3-way pioneers - the reason though was specific to what i was doing - i never got a chance to play with this deck and stock speakers in this car, but i think i could have gotten a decent sound out of them at reasonable levels



but, yes, no bottom end to be had on the stock stuff, and they don't go very loud, and at this age, they are likely to fail if pushed - nothing in that size is going to do very well though



as long as you do something about the low end (sub), properly tuned and with the crossover point correctly set, the head unit you are looking at will take care of the rest up to about 100 db, so you don't have to spend a fortune on speakers elsewhere

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[rd1cobra]

Can someone recap the speaker sizes/locations in both the coupe and the cab?



If I am not mistaken the coupe has 5 1/4" round speakers in the door, 4x6" speakers in the back and 2 inch tweeters in the door - 6 speaker system.

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[whakiewes]

My coupe with option 490 10-speaker sound has an odd sized tweeter at the upper door, 4" mid with tweeter in the lower door, and 5.25" in the rear with its own tweeter. This gives outstanding mid and highs, but terrible bass. I love it when I blast Luciano Pavarotti, but the second Jay-Z or such goes in I wish I had more. I am in the process of doing a stereo makeover. My 4" selections are very narrow for what I want, mostly high end so I went with MB Quart Premium Line with tweeter and crossover, ADS 5.25" in the back with tweeter, ADS 4 way amp, and that is where I stand now. I am adding Nokia tweeters (very mid tweeter sound), another amp to power to rest of my system, and I am working on a woofer. I haven't had time to pull everything apart to start installing, but once I am in there and get everything bolted up I will looking into a woofer. Thinking Infinity Basslink to keep things light and compact. I plan on adding about 10lbs or so to my car via the stereo, but I drive my car a lot and music is a high priority of mine.



On the same note, if anyone gets a chance to stop by your Audi dealership and check out the new S8, the $10,000 option Bang & Olfuson (sp?) stereo is absolutly amazing. I have never heard a better system factory or aftermarket.



Wes

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[peartree]

Thanks for all the great feedback-



Since I'd rather not add a sub to my interior, it sounds like updgrading the stock speakers is a must.



Okay, so what do you think of this scenario:

New head unit, leave the stock tweeters, but upgrade the lower door panel and rear speakers (no sub). Decent?



Bob, how do you like the Kenwood EZ500? Looks like it would blend well with the 968 interior. Do you have any pics? Do you find that a 3-band eq is limiting or is it just fine with the new speakers? I might opt for this head unit instead of the pioneer and use the money left over for the speakers...



BTW, what is the difference between parametric and graphic equalizers?

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[flash]

3 band is a bit limiting, but if it's parametric, and in conjunction with additional bass and treble controls (like on the pioneer 4700) you can get there - i prefer a 5 band full parametric



over simply:



a parametric eq is one wherein a specific frequency is chosen, usually by the user, and adjusted independently in level and bandwidth - this allows the user to grab a specific frequency and not end up attenuating something they don't want to



a graphic eq is the basic "slider type" that we have all seen for years - it pre selects particular frequencies and bandwidths, and gives you limited control over the sound - in this scenario, the more bands the better, as it limits the bandwidth each slider is controlling, and thereby limiting the other frequencies it also ends up attenuating



most manufacturers don't give you enough when using a graphic - many give you 5 bands, a few 7, a couple 9 or 11 - 16 is good - 31 is better - however, 31 is very difficult to manage in a car, and very hard to come by



an option to consider is replacing the rear speakers with woofers - this can dramatically improve things, but you lose front/rear control, so passengers in the back won't be terribly happy



sound is very subjective - everybody's ears and needs are different - go and listen to whatever you intend to use - play with the deck you want - do this first - once you install it, it's too late

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[peartree]

Flash - thanks for the parametric vs. graphic EQ explanation...I've been wondering about this. When I talked to Crutchfield with some questions, I don't think the tech support guy understood the difference.

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[flash]

lol - not terribly surprised - those guys are pretty good at the database searching and stuff, but when it comes down to really understanding what does what, they are frequently a bit undereducated



glad i could help - feel free to email me if you have further questions

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[PorscheDude]

peartree,

I installed the EZ500 in my car awhile back. http://www.968forums.com/index.php?showtopic=2717&hl=





I just installed another soundstream amp and a subwoofer last weekend. Now it really sounds great with the bottom end.

I made a speaker box to fit the spare tire well, and installed a Soundstream Dual Voice Coil SPL-10 Subwoofer.



After installing the sub my only complaint with EZ500 is it only has 2 outputs. One for front speakers and the second can be configured for rear or sub out.

Since I have a 4 channel amp and a 2 channel amp it really did not cause a problem, but 3 outputs would be nice.

Also the AUX input for the ipod is nice.

The EZ500 is very flexible and is a good value considering the features it has.



Patrick

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[happysails2you]

The speakers in my 92 cabrio were shot (the foam was dry rotted) when I got the car two years ago. I suspect that most 968's speakers have lived a good life, but it's time....



Recently replaced everything with: Alpine CDA 9857 receiver (with nice on-board iPOD connection, can control the iPOD unit through the receiver head) and CD changer (CHA-5634) mounted in rear cubby, plus MBQuart DSF213's (2-way component speakers --- tweeter and 5.25" speaker) mounted in door panels, and JL Audio 4x6's (TR400-CXi) in the back, 6 speakers in all. Sounds fantastic. Did have to add extra Dynamat padding around the rear panels to eliminate a rumble at certain frequencies, and it did the trick. When I decide to get deeper bass, I'll go the subwoofer and amp route, but for now, this is plenty fine and it did great with the top down on the highway.



Ciao,

Kathy

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[peartree]

Hey Kathy-



Thanks for the speaker and head unit ideas. I have yet to make good on my new years resolution so I'm still open to ideas. Like you, I'm thinking I'll replace the stock speakers and then decide if I need to add a powered sub. My challenge with the sub is figuring out an installation that won't get in the way of the sunroof when it's off. I also don't want to make any permanent modifications to the car to accommodate the sub.

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[Dano]

Has anyone determined the maximum sizes for replacement of stock 4x6 speakers?



I'm working on my Cabriolet, 6 speaker system. I took the rear panel off just to see what size it was because it looked simpler than a door panel. It looks like you could manage to fit a 5.25 in there fairly easily but not having one I don't know for sure.



I'm Just curious if I can upgrade the 4x6's to at least 5.25's or more?? Without too much difficulty. Already have sub but need better everything else.



TIA!

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[flash]

there are a couple of problems there, one of which is space - you might be able to cram a 5.25 in there, but mounting it wil be a bear unless you plan to cut your panel



the gain in low end response won't be much with a 5.25 - a 4x6 is 87% of the surface area of a 5.25, so there isn't a whole lot more air moving there



there are decent 4x6 speakers out there - the yamahas i had were pretty good (which reminds me that i need to put those up for sale) - the pioneer 3-ways i have now are even better, and specced to 45hz



properly cut off and tuned, the 4x6 works just fine, and i'm pretty picky - anything better will require either an enclosure, or cutting into the panel

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[ether_joe]

flash could you lay out the details on your current setup?



is there a separate component that handles the crossover, or is that integrated into the deck?

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[flash]

mine is all handled within my deck - it has seperate crossover points and slopes for front and rear, as well as the sub

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