[ampegboy1]

Hi all,



This might sound a daft question, but my background is old VWs, where the steering has 20mm of play at the rim of the steering wheel when everything's adjusted correctly! I had a look through the factory manual and online but couldn't find a definitive answer.



How much play is too much play in the joints on the steering UJ shaft? My car has a bit of free play at the rim of the steering wheel and it appears to be all in the top UJ. Is there a given amount of free play that is considered acceptable, or is it a case of no play at all being acceptable?



Thanks,



Michael

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[flash]

zero play allowable. with a hand on each, you should not be able to move the steering wheel at all without being able to feel it at the tire

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[ampegboy1]

Bugger...



Thanks <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.png" class="smilie" alt="" />



Michael

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[flash]

yeah- to make matters worse, the part is NLA.

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[ampegboy1]

No, what's worse is that it still drives better than everything else I've got <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/biggrin.png" class="smilie" alt="" />



Michael

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[MB968]

Ideally, I agree with Flash, no play. How much play do you have at the wheel? On 20 year old cars, and given how the steering mechanism is designed, you can expect some amount of wear from several of the components, thought preferably a small amount.

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[AJG]

[quote name='flash' timestamp='1377961267' post='148472']

yeah- to make matters worse, the part is NLA.

[/quote]

It is possible to get a RH drive steering shaft for your car. I had a new one fitted last year. Nothing wrong with the old one really, just refreshed lots of the front steering/suspension assy. Try your local Porsche centre, you may be surprised how well priced a lot of spare parts are. If you really can't get one then you can have my old one for the price of postage.to Essex! PS try Design911 or Porscheshop as well.

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[ampegboy1]

Thanks all,



I found a new, genuine, RHD shaft on Porsch-Apart's eBay shop so I've already jumped on it, hopefully I'll get another 18 years out of it!



Michael

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[flash]

yeah - this is one we are likely to start seeing a lot of. many owners have increased the wheel size, stiffened up the suspension, and mounted modern and grippier tires. this puts a lot of load on that joint. i expect to start seeing a lot of failures soon.



i have done all of the above, so i am likely to be a victim myself soon enough.



hence, i am already working on a replacement idea, since porsche, in their infinite wisdom, has chosen not to carry it any more.

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[Cloud9...68]

Flash,



Glad to hear you're working on a replacement idea - I was going to ask if anyone with access to a machine shop would be willing to reproduce them. The play in mine is pretty minimal, but with the abuse it's going to see going forward, it's only a matter of time.

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[flash]

yeah - shouldn't be a big deal to make the part. the question is going to be in the installation process, and trying to make that simple. i'm going to have to take one apart to see how i am going to do that more easily than stock.

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[AJG]

It really needs to be made in two parts. Its something I thought about a while back, but being a lazy sod I've done bugger all about it.

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[MB968]

Haven't looked at these closely to see if they might be able to be rebuilt. Normally in these it is just the bearings that go. Each u-joint will be two yokes, a spider, and 4 needle bearings. They are normally assembled by the bearings being pressed in from the outside as that is the only way to get them together. A variety of ways are used to hold the bearings in place. If these can be pressed apart without damaging the yokes or the spider, the bearings will be a standard part that should be widely available.

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[AJG]

Just had a look at my old unit. There are rubber dust seals between the spider and the u-joint faces. Also on the u-joint outside face there is a metal dust sealing cap there as well, it is held in at six points by the u-joint metal being swaged over the cap to hold it in. That could be removed with a milling cutter, after that who knows! I don't think the bearings could be hydraulicly(!) removed by putting oil in them then hammering a very close fitting punch into the bearing, probably no room for that anyway. I can't see how just a plain needle bearing would give good low mechanical play anyhow across the joint. Probably need a bit of brutality to get them out!

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[Cloud9...68]

As Flash says, getting these things in and out is a real pain on our cars - sure would be nice to be able to do it without having to drop the steering rack. Replacing the equivalent part my daughter's E46 was a twenty minute job. But on the other hand, replacing a starter on those cars is a six-hour affair requiring removal of the intake manifold, so you have to take the good with the bad, I guess.

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[MB968]

[quote name='AJG' timestamp='1378021373' post='148501']

Just had a look at my old unit. There are rubber dust seals between the spider and the u-joint faces. Also on the u-joint outside face there is a metal dust sealing cap there as well, it is held in at six points by the u-joint metal being swaged over the cap to hold it in. That could be removed with a milling cutter, after that who knows! I don't think the bearings could be hydraulicly(!) removed by putting oil in them then hammering a very close fitting punch into the bearing, probably no room for that anyway. I can't see how just a plain needle bearing would give good low mechanical play anyhow across the joint. Probably need a bit of brutality to get them out!

[/quote]

Thanks for the info. Should be able to use a small grinder to remove the areas that are swaged over the dust cap. After that you'll need a press to push the bearing out of the yoke from the opposite side. Edit: Try to save the dust caps. They may be difficult to replace.



And needle bearings can give low mechanical play, to zero play. Often there is a very very slight interference fit between the needle bearings and the round shaft portion. In cases where you can't rotate the shaft through complete revolutions once assembled, the interference fit is caused by the external fit between the outer race of the needle bearing when it is pressed into the mating member. This interference fit on the outside diameter squeezes down the internal fit between the needles and the shaft. So, you have to mount the bearing on the shaft first before you press it in.

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[flash]

i think it will be a lot easier and less expensive to merely provide a plug and play new coupler joint. as i said though, the issue will be in the installation.

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[AJG]

Ah, but although needle bearings will of course give good radial fit its axial play that is more difficult to control. Even changing to a better designed shaft with a coupler on it you will still initially have to drop the rack to get the old one of unless you don't mind sparks and dust from a cutting wheel all over your bonny car. Flash is right if the ends were " disposable" you could drop a new one in more easily. I think as far as RH drive cars go its possible to beef up the U-joint end to allow a method of minimising end play, . US cars may differ for clearance In the engine bay.

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[Lear35A]

[quote name='flash' timestamp='1378049308' post='148518']i think it will be a lot easier and less expensive to merely provide a plug and play new coupler joint. as i said though, the issue will be in the installation.[/quote]

I am sure that's true. It would be great if that ujoint could be accessed without dropping the whole steering rack.

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[Cloud9...68]

On the RHD cars, how close to the exhaust does the steering shaft, and specifically the coupler, get? I realize the coupler is a metal part, and therefore shouldn't be affected too much by heat, but I wonder if the coupler does sit very close to the exhaust, that 20+ years of exposure could eventually result in slightly accelerated wear.

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