[flash]

no plans whatsoever for a turbo



this is one where people get hung up on numbers - we see a lot of people bragging about what they have for numbers, but failing ot say how the car actually runs - if it isn't a transparent application (meaning that if it doesn't run like a good running stock car) then it isn't a good application - that is the goal - the idea is to provide more power with NO change in the way the car runs or drives



we really aren't trying to massage the outputs - it isn't bad where it is now - i'm just trying to resolve the way it runs - it was running too hot - just about have that nailed down now - it doesn't idle well, or start well - that will take some work - it was falling flat on its face at 5500 - it now pulls through 6k and revs to 6700 before it fumbles, and i think i know what to do to improve that more too



given that we are targeting low boost, i expect peak torque in the 270 area at a touch over 3k - not really interested in peak horsepower numbers - the idea is to make more torque in the range where the car is driven - any more than that and serious reinforcement of the chassis will be required, along with brake upgrades, suspension upgrades, yada yada - it's already on the edge now - not looking to build a monster that gets jeff killed

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[968gene]

[quote name='flash' post='66069' date='Jan 23 2009, 10:40 PM']fugly - way too 80's looking - no scoops, vents, ducts, or hickeys on the hood - nothing but sleek uninterrupted lines for me - the ridges in the car bug me enough - definitely don't need it for the supercharger - there are better ways to exit the air[/quote]



Hey its a stock RS Turbo scoop...not a hickey.

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[flash]

lol - i know - i still think it's fugly - same with the naca ducts - if they were going to relieve underhood pressures, they could have done it on the sides of the fenders, where it could have actually been sylish, and not the hood where it breaks up the airflow, allows gunk from the engine bay to smear itself all over the windshield, and just plain looks like some homemade stuck on scoop



not my cup of tea, and there are better ways to handle the problem - that one was just the least expensive

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[flash]

spent a bit staring at it today, and fiddling with different fittings, trying to figure out where i am going to stick the air cleaner that it won't be drawing hot air - not a lot of room in there with the hard pipes - i'll have to play with soft pipes and see if i can keep them from collapsing - no fear of burst, but collapse on the draw side is an issue - of course the draw side is on the throttle body side, and the intercooler pipe points straight at it, so it's hard to re-route



what i need is a flat tube that has 3" round ends



lol - now i remember why i stopped monkeying around with this stuff nearly 20 years ago

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[jeffski1]

[quote name='benspeeder' post='66073' date='Jan 24 2009, 07:20 AM']Flash - that rocks. Jeffski - you are lucky ya got flash to be your engineer!



Seriously - if you guys ever develop a turbo kit - I'd be real interested in buying it when it's time to leave ITR. With a turbo in the 968 the car could run with any SCCA GT2 class race car.



Any power guesses yet?[/quote]





Benspeeder--you ain't kiddin'. Let me tell ya--I am extremely lucky and quite thankful that flash is taking his time (and a lot of it I might add), helping me sort out some of the long standing issues with this supercharger setup. Like most projects of this sort, they never seem to get fully ironned out. Most people (me included) run out of money before that point. The car, as is, runs better than decent. Noticable power gains, mostly in low end torque, which is where I wanted it. But like Flash said, cold starting is an issue and right now the idle is set at 12-1400 to keep it from dying when coming off throttle. Nagging little issues the "professionals" couldn't seem to fix. Of course Flash has some ideas on those subjects and I can't wait to see what he's got up his sleeve. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/smile.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />



As for power gains, this type of setup, using a roots type supercharger, was never about big hp numbers. The impetus behind this setup was to give the car a bump in low to midrange torque, without adversely affecting the top end. And that is what's been achieve, except it does fall on it's face past 6500rpm. However, before Flash replaced the intercooler with the 951 unit, it didn't pull past 5500rpm. That 951 intercooler, obviously flows very well. And suprise, suprise, Flash has some ideas on improving flow even more so we can hopefully get it to pull all the way ro redline. That...would be awesome.



Tomorrow I am going to buy the silicone hoses for the new intercooler setup and hopefully we'll have some pictures tomorrow night.

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[flash]

ring me up - i think we'll have to meet there - i'm going to have to get a bit creative on the plumbing

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[968gene]

these guts are close and might be able to help...

http://www.racetep.com/ubend.html

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[flash]

the bends aren't the problem - it's that 3 pipes take up the same space - i need one that is crushable but won't collapse under draw

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[94SilverCab]

Don't forget to make sure that you use the right sealants when you install everything, you never know what might happen.



Just a note of caution,



Jay

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[flash]

lol - yeah, but that's a dumb rookie move - i've moved on to much bigger screw-ups

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[flash]

got a bit closer - the plumbing is about done - much cleaner - reused most of the stuff, but eliminated some bends



still need to rework the intake a bit - the first location didn't work - we found out just how much air this system needs, and how easy it is to restrict it - when i first saw it, there was a tiny cone filter - that got replaced with a larger one and stuck in a cold air spot - even that is too restrictive though, both at the filter and through the pipe - boost is cut down as soon as it gets added - temps also rise - second new location is better, but still not enough



a new larger filter is on the way, and a separator will be installed to isolate it from the heat



then, the fuel needs to be adjusted - it is running obviously rich as a result of a combination of the thick head gasket dropping compression ratio, and the really large injectors - an AFPR will be installed, and dialed down - in conjunction with that, the idle control valve needs to be reworked



once those are done, it should run better, smoother and stronger



all next week though

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[94SilverCab]

Your comment about air intake and seperation reminded me of the Tubo RS at Hershey.



Jay

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[flash]

lol - pretty, but if that has any filtration to speak of in it, that's not not NEARLY big enough - an all too common mistake

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[968gene]

[quote name='968gene' post='66076' date='Jan 24 2009, 11:18 AM']Hey its a stock RS Turbo scoop...not a hickey.[/quote]



Still lovin' this look....

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[flash]

not me - looks like some cheap add-on you get from jc whitney

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[Cloud9...68]

I don't like the hood bulge at all, and I never cared for the splitter (how can such an already-low car even be functional on the street, let alone a driveway embankment, with one of these thigs bolted to the chin? <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/blink.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> ). As for the NACA ducts, the PO installed them on my car, and while I wouldn't have done it on my own, I find that they add a little sizzle to the very conservative gray color of my car. But this stuff is of course all a matter of personal taste.

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[PorscheDude]

I have killed a few splitters with my lowered ride height.

Love the way they look, but to much work.

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[flash]

the big scoop reminds me of the 924 GT - very much a stck on piece - my big issue is that it's just way too busy there will both ducts, the big scoop and the badge - i would have at least lost the badge



i never liked the look of the porsche motorsports splitter, as it looked odd where you could see the front apron underneath it - another stuck on part - the fiberglass one that is on that car is even worse - the one i have on mine now looks at least like it came on the car of the time - i haven't made up my mind yet on the tech art one



to bring this thread back on topic of the supercharged car - he has a fiberglass one, and we will probably mount it, though he fully expects to screw it up in a hurry

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[benspeeder]

Love that scoop and naca duct look. So I'm from Jersey. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/cool.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> (Really Mass. but I can fake the accent)



Flash - I often stand and look at the car for some time before I select the first tool. Lately I've been staring at the two of 'em and scratching my head trying to decide which one to gut for a cage.



On splitters - I will need one - where's one sold that will last past the first hit on the gator back curbs?

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[PorscheDude]

Carnwell in Europe. It's made of polyeurethene.

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