[968Oz]

I'm starting to set my car up for the track use in club events and I'm looking to upgrade dampers and springs at the moment. My intention for the car is to be a track car that I can occasionally use on the street. Reading this forum has been very helpful, but I'd be interested in getting views on appropriate spring rates. My initial thoughts were to get an M030 like set up, but seems like for my intended use I could easily go higher in spring rates and maintain steetability. What has been your collective experiences?

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Cloud9...68]

I'm sure people infinitely knowledgeable than myself (such as Flash) will chime in soon, but you might find it helpful to educate yourself on the very complex topic of performance car suspensions before diving in with mods - that's my plan when I'm where you are, anyway. I did some searching awhile back, and there are surprisingly few books on the topic, but one that got consistently good reviews was "Competition Car Suspension - A Practical Handbook," by Allan Staniforth. Any comments on this from the suspension gurus out there?

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[dep and dep]

These threads were pretty interesting:

Suspension Project - http://www.968forums.com/index.php?showtopic=534
Current suspension upgrades, Just to let you know... - http://www.968forums.com/index.php?showtopic=3198 (KW photos)
What advantage does Moton/Leda/KW have over M030? - http://www.968forums.com/index.php?showtopic=3214
KW Coilovers - anybody have them - http://www.968forums.com/index.php?showtopic=3629

http://www.weissach.net/924-944-968_Susp...ocksStruts

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[firefish]

I going to have 800 lb in up front and 1100 lb in at the rear. My car is a bit lighter than it originally was, about 200 lbs less than a stock CS. The overall geometry of the suspension is stock although I'm running 255's in all corners with an ET (offset) of 43 mm so the wheels are in effect pushed outwards about an inch up front, a bit less at the rear.

Last season I ran with 600/800 (I think it was 800?) but that felt too soft for me.

I'm only rolling on r-tyres btw.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[968Oz]

Thanks for the information guys

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[craigawoodman]

968oz,

It depends on whether or not you keep the rear torsion bars. I have upgraded the suspension Bistein ciol-overs, but would probably go for KW next time for better bump comtrol. I have also upgraded the roll bars to make the car corner flatter. My spring rates were not as high as those quoted here but provide a good compromise between road and track.

Being in Victoria, the rules down there do not allow for many modifications. I have also fitted bigger front brakes, but engine is stock. Set-up was enough to win E-Class up here for the last two years and to have the rules changed so I am now in D-Class (won the overall championship last year).

Drop me an email and I can send some of the info I have to you.

Regards,

Craig

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[firefish]

Forgot to mention but yes, my torsionbars are gone. I'm also runnin' Tarret sways.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[Cloud9...68]

Other than greater adjustability, and slightly less weight, what are the advantages of eliminating the torsion bars and going with a coil spring set-up? Seems like a very complicated and expensive conversion, so I'm curious as the the benefits. Thanks.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[firefish]

I honestly don't know since mine were gone when I bought the car. I seem to recall someone talking about the t-bar setup having lots of friction ie not working so well. I'm guessing he meant that the spring plate bearings bind or something.

Another benefit might be that it is easier to play with the ride height without having to re index the t-bars.

If you want to get stiffer springs out back or toy with different rates it is just as easy to have a setup similar to the M030 as it would be with a t-bar delete kit.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[thingo]

I find kw's a lot better than M030, better at the track and a lot more comfortable on the street even though the springs are twice as stiff!
I custom specced them, 100f 60r with torsion bars.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[968Oz]

"100f 60r with torsion bars."

Thingo - Those numbers sound quite low if your talking in pounds and a track car

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[firefish]

Most likely N/mm. I have, in N/mm 140 front and 190 rear.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[968Oz]

Thanks Firefish, that sounds right

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[tmcalabro]

For laughs and giggles, here is what I have in my 944 Turbo DE car:

550 lb Front / 650 lb Rear

Torsion bars removed - this makes for easy height adjustments - replaced with Bilstein Cup coilovers

Caster bearing blocks

Heavier OEM anti-roll bars 944.343.706.30 & 944.333.701.01

All new OEM rubber bushings on bars

Poly-bronze Spring Plate bushings

Trailing arm Monoballs

This car is very tight, without the feeling that it's going to knock your eyeballs out. I occasionally take it on the street for test rides - no problem, but I woud not use this set-up for an every day driver.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[thingo]

Yea 100f nm 60 r nm,(25.5 torsion bars) around 570lbs front spring 297 effective rear. Tarrett sways,top/bottom front brace.Coupe not CS. Understeered a bit.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[mattipuh]

mine setup 450lb front, 700lb rear. Torsion bars gone.

Think still too understeery, although need to setup tire alignment + sway bars better, so Not changing springs yet.

using tarrent sways aswell. nice ones. ,)

my car is 1290kg without driver with 10ltrs of fuel. so heavy as S**T still. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/biggrin.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[RS Barn]

I like to run dual springs on front especially with limited street use. I run Eibach 275 tenders with 550 main up front and 600-650 on rear with Bilsteins TC shocks. Bilsteins have digressive valving witch has a stong initial bump seting and then a progressive bump for rest of stroke. This gives great turn in while not having a super firm front end. I'm not a fan of KW's due to lack of ability to change springs. You are stuck with what you bought. I've also had bad experiences with their rebound damping vs spring rate.

Secondary thought. For a "mostly" track car I prefer to leave in T bars and reindex to correct ride height. This way I can run a 275-300 spring on back with zero weight helper springs. We set them to have 5mm movement before contacting main spring. This way car can be street driven on almost any road condition and still be very fast at track.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[pure&amp;simple]

I have a slightly softer version of the suspension Pete described above. 450lb front with tenders, and 300lb rear with helpers and torsion bar. It is my daily driver and rides quite well on the street while being very competent on the track for driver's ed events.

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[steve g]

I just purchased Moton Clubsports, M030 swaybars, and also planning t polybronze spring plate bearings and aluminum spring plate cover rear mounts. Later this spring, I'll redo the front suspension with weather sealed control arm front and rear monoballs and camber plates.



Car will be used for DE and future PCA E Class Club racing events therefore I am keeping the stock torsion bars.



Question is, if I am planning on running 700 front and 900 rear, which is what was recommended if I did NOT run torsion bars, what springs should I be running with the stock torsion bars ?



Is the purpose of re-indexing to adjust the ride height which is effected by the size of the springs selected ?

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.

[flash]

any way to run bigger sway bars? those springs dictate more bar



the factory torsions are 175# wheel rate - the 900# springs would be about 500# wheel rate - that makes a total of 675# wheel rate - you are pretty balanced at that point, though these cars like to be a bit softer in the rear than the front when you get that stiff - you might consider a 750 or 800



reindexing - essentially yes - the torsion bars establish the ride height in OEM setup - reindexing allows you to set that much lower, and then use the coilovers to set height

Partial Post: Please Login or Register to read the full post.