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Speaker "Upgrade"
#1

Given the poor location of the factory door speaker in these cars, my mission here is to improve the stereo image by moving the sound field up and forward, while managing expectations within the envelope that comes with a cabriolet.



The primary constraint for this project is my fear of cutting new holes in the door panels and making an irreversible mess of things. The secondary constraint is to avoid redesigning the door panel all-together and/or replacing it with a 944 door panel (although Flash makes it look way too easy).



The starting point for this project is a Kenwood head unit that claims to put 22 watts into 4 channels, but i think it's more like 15 tops, Memphis Audio 5.25 inch 2 ways in the doors, Memphis 4x6 coaxials in the rears, and a 100 watt Eclipse mono amp driving a shallow JL 10 inch sub in a homemade [custom] enclosure.



Realizing the head unit is underpowered for the task at hand, the mono sub amp was replaced with an Alpine 5 channel amp; 60 watts into 4 and a mono 250 sub amp all in one compact footprint that will still fit in the rear passenger side cubby.



The 2-ways (both tweeter and 5.25 midbass) are mounted in the stock location under the arm rest, with dynamat and the crossover behind the plastic mounting panel,



The stock tweeter came out and was replaced with a CDT Audio midrange driver. The midrange pair come with a crossover that allows both adjustment of the high pass cut-off (from 100 to 800 Hz) and level control attenuation to blend them into the front mains. The crossover is wired in parallel with the front mains. The best part from an installer's perspective is that these midrange drivers are drop in, no cutting required, with a backside ring mount similar to the stock tweeter.



On top of that, a pair of 1 inch CDT "presence" tweeters are added at the top of the A-Pillar firing downward and into the windshield at a 45 degree angle. Each of these has their own crossover with 5 adjustments for high pass cut-off from 1kHz to 2.5kHz and 5 level adjustments to blend them into the sound field.



First impression with all this is that the sound field has moved both forward and up, with the image just above the dash board. I may have also exposed the bottom end limitation of the Memphis 5.25 and will have to consider replacing them with JL Audio or Focal's that can get down to 60Hz.



With so many adjustments in the crossovers, and time alignment and EQ in the head unit, this setup will take some time to properly tune. One advantage that the head unit has is the ability to store up to 6 tunings, so at a minimum, there will be one tuning for parked, one for mobile, and one for talk radio. Hopefully, I will have it dialed in by Paso so ya'll can hear for yourselves.



now for the pix -
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#2

Nice work. Its a really difficult one as I think any 5.25's are going to struggle to get low enough and push enough air to cover the low notes, hence Flash's 6.5" mod.



I got round it by bridging a 5 channel amp to run the front's (100WRMS Alpine Type R's) and a DLS RXT6 under the dash, with HU for the rear speakers. Too some time to dial out some of the Alpine's brightness but staging problems completely gone.
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#3

have considered running the rears off the head unit and bridging the amp for the fronts and may revert to that if i cant get happy with the tuning.
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#4

Brian - what kind of sub enclosure are you using? I have a Polk 8" driver in a KLA sub box, but it's not going close to low enough and has no punch. At Flash's recommendation, I've bought a JL sub that should go lower, but haven't installed it yet (my car is still down with an electrical disaster). Plus I'm not even sure that the larger magnet of the JL will even fit in the KLA box, so another enclosure option might have to be considered.
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#5

he's in a cab, so totally different acoustics and harmonics to consider, not to mention placement



before you put a sub in there, you should come hear the 6.5" JLs in my doors. they bump very nicely, and would really bump in the rear speaker enclosure in a hardtop.
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94 Midnight Metallic Blue Cab Porsche 968 w/deviating cashmere/black interior and WAY too many mods to list - thanks to eric for creating www.968forums.com



"It isn't nearly as expensive to do it right as it is to do it wrong."
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#6

You chaps should have a look into the RXT6. Ive even got the gain turned down and the sub control reduced on the headunit. It provides more bass than you will ever need if you are chasing SQ and imaging. And no I dont work for DLS!!
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#7

while i've not heard that one yet, i've had bazookas in all sizes. while they are a nice lightweight compact unit, and they do help a lot, they don't make bottom end like a real sub. they are mushy and rumbly by comparison. maybe if they made them out of carbon fiber and not abs they would be better.



the other issue is that we are in cabs, not hardtops. the sub needs to be very punchy to add anything of value. space is also at a premium. i think we have too much stuff under the passenger area to fit that in there. you are right hand drive, and it looks like they didn't move everything. besides that, the loss of leg room is unacceptable for those of us who have passengers.



i find it odd that there is no frequency response info on their site. it's also odd that they want you to set a crossover point as low as they do, but don't specify the slope. if i set mine that low, with the slope i have, i think i'd blow it up. i think they presume a 6 or 12 db slope and figure that the unit will be mostly working at 60-80hz. that would be typical, but not optimal.



back to bva's install



i am almost certainly going to try those mids, and move my tweeters down concentric with my woofers. i think that is going to help resolve the speed varying sound field issues. that's how i have it in the SL550, and it's a lot more consistent. i'm not sure yet about the tweeters though. i have staging programs in my head unit that might do the same thing with less fuss.
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94 Midnight Metallic Blue Cab Porsche 968 w/deviating cashmere/black interior and WAY too many mods to list - thanks to eric for creating www.968forums.com



"It isn't nearly as expensive to do it right as it is to do it wrong."
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#8

To the collective wisdom of the forum. I'm having a problem with the left door speaker fading out and returning when I up the volume or go over a bump. My guess is a loose connection somewhere (duh). When I take the mounting screws out of the speaker it seems really difficult to pull out. Am I missing something? Does the whole assembly need to be removed or do I just need pull harder?

Thanks,

~tom
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#9

it's probably also glued in
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94 Midnight Metallic Blue Cab Porsche 968 w/deviating cashmere/black interior and WAY too many mods to list - thanks to eric for creating www.968forums.com



"It isn't nearly as expensive to do it right as it is to do it wrong."
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#10

The OEM spade lugs on the speaker wires are cheesy and prone to loosening up. I had one doing the same thing until I took the door panel off and "encouraged" it to stay put.
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#11

Flash/Tama, yep had some glue and foam on the back side. I had a little discussion with the connectors on their future as residents of a Porsche door panel or recycled as a gas cap on a Chevy. Seems to be working fine now. Thanks for the help.

~tom
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#12

A sternly-worded memo can go a long way. <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/wink.png" class="smilie" alt="" />
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#13

after numerous attempts to tune, with the help of a 'real time analyzer' app on the ipad, I could not overcome a distinct dropout at 100 hz and 200 hz. everything sounded like a 3-string bass was in the band. A quick conclusion would attribute this to the limitation of the 5.25 drivers in the door, but with 2 well defined drop-outs, destructive interference can't be ruled out. My head unit has a time alignment function, but is limited by a 5 band eq.



solution - rockford fosgate's 3Sixty.3, 1/3 octave EQ that allows adjustment of up to 8 discrete outputs. problem solved; set the eq on each speaker independently and no more 100 hz drop-out. mounted the 3Sixty.3 to the underside of the glove box. programming the 3Sixty.3 is done with a GUI that runs in windows via usb cable interface. It also comes with a cd that includes a full spectrum pink noise track for tuning.
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#14

i'm very much looking forward to upgrading from the 3sixty2 to the 3sixty3. some of the new features are very attractive to me.
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94 Midnight Metallic Blue Cab Porsche 968 w/deviating cashmere/black interior and WAY too many mods to list - thanks to eric for creating www.968forums.com



"It isn't nearly as expensive to do it right as it is to do it wrong."
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#15

did you resolve the turn on pop?
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94 Midnight Metallic Blue Cab Porsche 968 w/deviating cashmere/black interior and WAY too many mods to list - thanks to eric for creating www.968forums.com



"It isn't nearly as expensive to do it right as it is to do it wrong."
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#16

I've posted this elsewhere, but it really belongs here:



I can confirm that the JL Audio 8W3V3-4 8" sub DOES fit in the KLA sub box. (there was some concern that the magnet might be too large, but it drops in just fine)



Flash - which model 6.5" JL separates do you recommend for the rears in a coupe? (I may just switch over to all JL speakers from the Polk's)
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#17

C3650 - no question. the issue will be the power to drive them. you'll need 50W RMS (not peak) to drive them without distortion at high volume.



lol - ironically i think i am going to be selling 2 matching amplifiers that would do very nicely in one of these cars. i need to change my sub amp in order to run the 3sixty3, which means the amps currently running my subs will come out.



i've spent the better part of the morning working out how to run the 3sixty3. i think i have it all worked out now. of course i get to spend another grand to do it, but what the heck. it's only money.
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94 Midnight Metallic Blue Cab Porsche 968 w/deviating cashmere/black interior and WAY too many mods to list - thanks to eric for creating www.968forums.com



"It isn't nearly as expensive to do it right as it is to do it wrong."
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#18

Thanks Flash, I'll check 'em out.



My amp is an old warhorse 5-channel Alpine MRV-450. RMS is 50w x 4 + 200w for the sub. Should be up to task.
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#19

turn on pop resolved. documentation implies settings will be stored in preset #1 automatically but it doesn't happen unless you save it there through a GUI command. the pop occurs when there are no settings saved on the device.



btw - $409 on Amazon http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004V9G...UTF8&psc=1



the 3Sixty.3 also has an optical toslink input (but no multi-channel decoder), bluetooth, and an extra stereo rca input...overkill for the 968, but it's got me thinking about putting one in my RV.
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#20

just ordered the 3sixty3 and the new amp
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94 Midnight Metallic Blue Cab Porsche 968 w/deviating cashmere/black interior and WAY too many mods to list - thanks to eric for creating www.968forums.com



"It isn't nearly as expensive to do it right as it is to do it wrong."
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