[flash]

mitch - hey - that's cool - i may go that route in the 968 - i'd mount the controller elsewhere, gauges in the way, but i like it

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[csc71]

[quote name='SILVY968' date='Apr 16 2006, 03:32 PM']I wanted a radio that matched the PORSCHE interior, played CD's, fit without any alterations and had a display that shows the station and the song/artist.

I found a Becker CDR-210 on Ebay for about $ 250.

If the radio requirement is to be as stock looking as possible, but have a CD player and newer electronics then this is your baby.

[right][post="19275"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]



How does the radio Have "Porsche" on it , is that a sticker?



THANKS TO EVERYONE...Since I am a novice at this I need to order a Crutchfield catalog and do some more research.



THANKS AGAIN



Steve

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[SILVY968]

[quote name='flash' date='Apr 16 2006, 12:37 PM']ok - now this i find odd - you, being an audio guy, choosing that deck - were the looks that much more important than the sound?  have you added something else downstream to compensate?



come on - give - what else do you have in there?

[right][post="19278"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]





I am a pro audio guy, and when I get into my car the last thing that I want to do is listen to more music.

Also, I know what really great studio sound can be like and what it takes in dollars , dimensions , reflective, absorbative and difused surfaces. To try and get it in the acoustic environemnt of a car is a joke, besides when you drive a Porsche cab with an airbox that breathes and a chip that sings up to 7,000 rpm why listen to a radio? I say listen to the engine in the car and music in the home.

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[flash]

actually, you can go to www.crutchfield.com - they guys there are very helpful on the phone too

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[csc71]

[quote name='flash' date='Apr 16 2006, 06:21 PM']you may not need them - a little know fact of system design is that it is worse to have too many watts than it is to have too few - never exceed the max handling of the speakers - it seems counter-intuitive, because you would think "hey, better too many than too few - i can always turn it down" - the problem here is that the more power you apply, the more the magnet throws the cone - it is very easy to pop a speaker, and as you add too much power, it quickly distorts



the factory speakers can only handle about 14 watts, and most aftermarket full range ones go up to about 20 or so - this is the problem i am having with switching decks - i would have to find a 4 channel amp with no more than 25W/ch - i don;t want ot play the "gain game" and end up with too much white noise



most decks have ample power to drive those speakers



trying to get low end is an entirely different matter, requires a sealed enclosre, and enough cone area and chamber volume to drive and support the frequencies you want



so, you may be fine with your speakers and deck when it comes to clarity and volume - frequency response would be the area of concern - the parametric eq can help here



this is really where crossovers come in though - if your crossover is set up for one input and multiple outputs for each section of the spectrum, then you will maximize the power you have - if you are going into one speaker, then jumping to the next and cutting that one down, you will lose effective power because you are sending full spectrum audio, and then shedding what you don't want



this is the next thing for me to work on - my car was set up in the front like the latter when i got it, and i have not done anything to change that yet - when i stick the analyzer in there, i can find the optimum crossover point



so, CSC71 - have we confused you enough yet?

[right][post="19285"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]





I must admit, yes THOROUGHLY confused. It is like you are all speaking a language I never heard before. I am not looking for something offensive as honestly I will enjoy the purr, but for longer joy rides a CD player will add to the enjoyment. (Incidentally I got a cool Porsche cd holder on ebay). I will do some reading, order the catalogs and then maybe take it somewhere to let a professional do the installation. I am still reading and trying to learn from these replies..I had no idea I would open up such a lively discussion!

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[flash]

lol - no worries - there is a world of options, and you don't have to go nuts to get decent sound - you can get 90% of the way there with very little expenditure and complexity - the last 10% is where it gets a little nutty, and we geeks tend to lose it



i'm trying to keep my 968 system simple, but, well, you know how that goes

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[SILVY968]

[quote name='flash' date='Apr 16 2006, 06:31 PM']lol - no worries - there is a world of options, and you don't have to go nuts to get decent sound - you can get 90% of the way there with very little expenditure and complexity - the last 10% is where it gets a little nutty, and we geeks tend to lose it



i'm trying to keep my 968 system simple, but, well, you know how that goes

[right][post="19310"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post][/right][/quote]



lol - simple and flash are like oil and water!

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[Beachboy]

OK here I go, joining the club.

I'm gonna disagree with you flash.

More amp power will almost always improve sound quality.

IMHO, what the speakers are rated for is not so essential to sound quality except at very high volume levels. Again, IMHO, Amp power is always good, more power equals better sound. Most prominently heard in the lower bass sounds. The reproduction of the lower freq sounds requires a slower, and if you're doing it right, a longer amplitude of the larger, base speakers; that takes more power than the higher freq sounds.

If your speakers can't handle the amp power then use the little knobs and turn it down. But even at lower volume levels, the base will sound better with more power. Distortion from the amp will always increase with output level so the easier the amp is being pushed the less distortion you get, and that shows up at the low end first.

You may notice than any home system worth a dime has a separate amp, usually very high power, for the sub woofer. Even high powered home system amps don't pack enough punch tp properly drive a big sub.

So, if you want good sound get the most RMS power you can get. 25W is the most I've seen in car heads. That's 78% more than a 14 watt unit.

If you want even better bass then get a sub and auxiliary amp to drive it. But it sounded like you didn't want to get that elaborate. Neither did I.

Now, Flash. This is all My Humble Opinion and I already know that you are not on this page. That's OK with me.

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[flash]

well, i guess we need to divert a bit



beachboy, i hear what you are saying - let's see if i can clarify what i was trying to say, because i think i left a little too much to misinterpretation



here's what happens when you have too big of an amp - the signal to noise ratio goes down - you end up with louder sound, but not cleaner - to properly set up a system, you use a meter, find the spl near the max rated speaker handling, and then adjust the gain on an amp to match - if the amp is too big, you end up not getting into the optimal range for the amp, and end up with white noise - this is long before you blow anything up - this makes the high end very edgy and adds sibilance very quickly



if the amp is too small, you distort, as the amp is working harder than it can in its own THD



it's really about matching, but, what i was talking about is that, rather than stick in an amp with 50w/ch to drive speakers that can only handle 14, i'd stay with the deck power - now, if you could find an amp that is only slightly over the speaker rating, then that's great - i haven't had a lot of luck finding one lately though - i'm on the hunt now for a small sized 4x25



and i totally agree on the sub - i would not expect or try to get the small speakers in this car to reproduce anything low - the best i've seen for the front is 60 and that requires an air tight chamber - as it is, you'll be lucky to get an accurate 80hz out of them - the rears aren't much better, still require a sealed chamber, and won't even then go below 60hz - no bottom end going on there, and only distortion if you try, regardless of power



as a test, i hooked up a 200W amp to a 4x6 that is claimed to go to 45hz - the analyzer said it was only accurately reproducing about 70hz - everything below that was mush



the mistake most people make is to try to get bottom end out of deck power, into small speakers, and they end up doing exactly what you are talking about - distorting - more power won't really help here though - if the speaker can't go that low, as is the case of anything we can get to go up front, then it doesn't matter how much power you have, it's just going to distort, and with too much power, rip loose a voice coil



if it's distorting down low, better to eq it out or use some form of crossover - power is not really the answer there



this is why the parametric is so important - in an arena i use third octave eqs, but in a car i prefer a parametric - (however, i am installing third octave eqs in my yukon) - in my studio rig i have third octaves - in my home system i have both



bass and treble knobs only just won't get you there

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[Brian]

away from the internet for a weekend, and look what i miss!



i want to agree with everyone who says that a 5-7 band eq in the head unit will make a huge difference. i've been very happy with the sony xplod unit. not too pricey and has controls for three amps and an aux input. not too pricey, either.



i wanted to ask the experts a question...

if i have built in high/low pass filters in my receiver, and also in my amps, which should i use? both? i've just been using the ones in the amps because they have more flexibility with an infinitely adjustable dial as opposed to the head unit which just has three points.



does it matter which i use?

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[flash]

that really depends on what you want to cut and where- it's pretty subjective, and based on the speaker's abilities as much as anything, but either should do the job



see if you have a slope spec (6db/octve, 12 db/octave, 18db/octave, etc) or if it is a hard cutoff

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[Brian]

thanks, flash.

i'll check into what type is in the head and what type in the amps.

once i figure out which type i have, can you explain the difference? in theory, i get what you're saying, but how does it play out? one style would cut off the bass entirely at a point and the other would taper it out more gradually, right?



also, is there a separate wire for the am radio booster? i have never been able to get am stations and would like to catch an occasional sporting event. i'm sure i have the fm booster plugged in..... ????

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[Kim]

Brian. I, too, have the Sony Xplode system and with the 10 speaker setup in the coupe it sounds good enough for me using only the head unit amp.



The unit, as you say, has three separate pre-amp outputs with adjustable level controls for sub, mid and high end. I do know if the sub frequency cutoff is adjustable - some amps have three or so crossover frequency points at say 50, 80 and 120 Hz. This completely eliminates the need to use the power amp section of the head unit. If you have a 10 speaker system I really am not sure what you would want to do this as it sounds pretty good using the built-in EQ curves.



It might be hard to attach a parametric EQ to this system because of the three output channels. If you were to set the crossover points much different from the factory settings you would have "holes" in the frequency range. A parametric EQ works better on a FFR output.



Keeping within the bounds of common sense, a 50x4 watt amp driving a set of 25 watt speakers will sound better than a 25x4 watt amp driving a pair of 25 watt (or 250 watt, for that matter) speakers. Clearly, overdriving will pull the voice coil away from the magnet enough to perhaps damage it but unless once gets a bit crazy the "whoofing" or "popping" give this away in enough time to back off. Driving a lower powered amp to clipping, however, produces square waves that are very hard on speakers. Pick the speakers that will give the best sound and provide the power handling that you need and then buy an amp that can overdrive the speakers by a factor of about 2. I can tell you that 50x4 watts is plenty for this old rocker to get his ya-yas out.



Another factor not mentioned in this tread is the efficiency of the speakers. A speaker rated at 88 dB/watt will not be as loud as one rated at 91 dB/watt if supplied with 1 watt of FFR sound (ie white noise). 3 dB is generally considered to represent a "noticeable" increase in volume, 10 dB represents "twice" as loud. This is subjective but the bottom line is using inefficient speakers simply requires more power. If you have a choice, buy efficient speakers at least 91 dB /watt or higher. Be sure that all the speakers have the same efficiency if you are driving them with the one amp in the head unit. If they do not, you may need either a good EQ, different rated power amps or at least a gain control on each one to account for the speaker differences.



Hope this helps more than it confuses.

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