[Cloud9...68]

While I'm waiting for someone to answer my latest question on my tail light non-functioning (well, semi-functioning, anyway) problem, I have another one, as I'm simultaneously working on several problems, all of which are kicking my butt. After re-sealing the power steering pump and rack, I have no assist whatsoever (something tells me that's not the way it's supposed to work...). Travis from Rennbay gave me a few things to check, including one that I'm not sure is correct. He told me to remove the cap from the power steering fluid reservoir while the engine is running to see if I can see fluid flow, as this would be an indication if the pump is pushing fluid to the rack. I did that, and I don't, but I also did the same on my daughter's 04 BMW 325i, and I can't see any indication of fluid flow in the reservoir on that car, either, so I'm not convinced this is something we'd normally expect to see. Next time you fire up your engine, could somebody please remove the PS reservoir cap and see if you can see any indication of flow of the fluid? Thanks.

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[Lear35A]

Nope. No indication at all.

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[968rz]

There may be to much fluid in the tank to see movement, you could try sucking some out and looking again.

When you first filled it did the fluid go down, meaning did you have to top it off again? (it should have)

Also did it make a whine at first that stopped after turning the wheel back and forth several times?

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[Cloud9...68]

[quote name='968rz' timestamp='1366584009' post='141750']

There may be to much fluid in the tank to see movement, you could try sucking some out and looking again.

When you first filled it did the fluid go down, meaning did you have to top it off again? (it should have)

Also did it make a whine at first that stopped after turning the wheel back and forth several times?

[/quote]

I think I did have to add some fluid after I first filled it, but not as much as I expected (should have paid closer attention as to the amount). And no, I don't remember hearing any whine.



My next step was going to be to try to determine if any substantial amount of fluid is coming out of the pump. This isn't straightforward, because the high pressure output line is connected to the pump with a strange circular-type fitting (no idea what it's called) and a banjo bolt. The pump has a 14 mm x 1.5 mm pitch thread cut into it, where the banjo bolt secures the high pressure line. So, I'm going to see if I can find some sort of hollow shaft (like a thread adapter) with a 14 mm x 1.5 mm outer thread that I could screw into the pump, and then attach a piece of rubber tubing that will fit over this adapter. Then, I'd start the engine and confirm that I'm getting a significant amount of fluid flow out of the pump. It would be even better if I could somehow attach a hydraulic pressure gauge to the output of the pump, but I'm not sure how I would do that.



If anyone has any ideas as to a simpler way to partition whether the problem is with my pump, or the rack, I'm all ears. Thanks.

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[vliegwielolaf1234]

If you rev the car with the lid off you should be able to see the fluid moving , lower fluid level wil make it easier to see .

It is not a common problem , but i had air trapped in the sytem once blokking the fluid flow (not the 968 ) after loosning the lines and making a huge mess with the ATF oil , it worked fine .

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[Cloud9...68]

OK, I'll try it with a small amount of fluid in the reservoir. I'm suspicios that I put the vanes in backward when I re-sealed the pump, and that this may be why I'm not getting sufficient flow into the rack, but I'd like to confirm a lack of sufficient fluid pressure before I take the pump apart.

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[MB968]

I had mine completely off when I did the engine work. I followed the manual, or something I read somewhere; filled the res. ran the wheels back and forth, just shy of full lock. Repeated this until the res. took no more fluid. This process seemed to get most if not all the air out. I had to top the res. off a couple of weeks later, but I also have a crush washer on one of the lines that is weeping, so the top up may have just been from the small leak.

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[Cloud9...68]

I wasn't quite as systematic about it, but I think that in effect I've done the same thing. I started the engine after the rebuild, let it idle for extended periods several times (the suspension wasn't back on the car at this point), varying the engine speed. I topped up the PS resvoir, but noticed that the level really didn't go down much from letting the car idle. Once I finished putting the suspension on, I neglected to turn the wheel to the full lock positions when I noticed I wasn't getting any power assist - I just drove it like that to the shop to get the roll bar installed and to get the alignment/corner balance. At the shop, we noticed the main fuel line in the engine bay was leaking badly, so we pushed the car to a spot on the shop owner's lot where it would be out of the way until I got my new line. I then installed the line, but by that time, several other cars had been parked near mine, so I had to execute multiple three-point turns to extricate myself from the car's resting spot, which forced me to turn the wheel to the extremes of its travel many times (I was really wedged in there), and then drove the car home. The steering assist never returned. I've checked the reservoir level, and it was still where I left it when I last topped it up.



I've since drained the reservoir by removing the high pressure line where it connects to the pump with the intent of somehow determining if I'm getting a reasonable amount of fluid flow coming out of the pump, but havn't actually figured out a way how to do that yet, as I've been consumed by the car's other multiple issues and problems. I was thinking of threading an adapter into the pump, and connecting a rubber hose, and running the other end of it back into the reservoir, but never having done this, I'm afraid of spraying the whole inside of my garge with ATF. So, I'm thinking of putting the line back on, and only partially filling the reservoir with fluid, turning the engine on, and seeing if I can see evidence of fluid movement in the reservoir. If not, I'll turn the wheel to the extremes of its travel back and forth a few times, and see if the fluid level drops.



Any other suggestions would be greatly welcomed.

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[bombfactory]

My car has had heavier-than-normal steering ever since I've owned it. As I've stated elsewhere, I've replaced everything in my steering system, except the pump, which I re-sealed, trying to cure this, with no improvement. Maybe it's always had the vanes in the ps pump facing the wrong direction - perhaps from a rebuild by some previous owner. I'm going to be a little pissed if my entire problem all along has been nothing but those damn little vanes!



On the other hand, I'm going to be VERY happy if, when I open the pump and switch the vanes around, it finally solves the problem!

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[Cloud9...68]

I could very well be tacking this myself this weekend. If, as I expect, I don't see any evidence of strong fluid flow/pressure out of the pump, I'll take it apart, and make sure the vanes are pointing in the right direction. But then, my big fear is that with strong fluid pressure getting to the rack, it's going to leak like a sieve after that nightmare of a re-seal I did on it!

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[bombfactory]

I chickened out of that job and got an AutoZone rack. No leaks anywhere so far. Wish I could say the same about the engine...

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[Cloud9...68]

You were very smart to not tear apart your steering rack. It was the hardest job of anything I did on the car during this massive project these past two years, and that includes pulling and rebuilding the engine, fitting the racing seat, the fixed headlight conversion, etc. But then again, it was one of the first things I did, so maybe if I had done some of the others first as "warm-ups", the rack re-seal wouldn't have seemed so bad.

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[DaveN]

Good luck tackling the pump this weekend. I hope your efforts won't be in vane :-D

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[Cloud9...68]

<img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/rolleyes.gif" class="smilie" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/biggrin.png" class="smilie" alt="" />



Ha, ha. Very funny. Actually, it sort of is. The power steering is one of about five remaining things I need to take car of before my car is really driveable after its long hiatus. From the 13 miles (without insurance, registration, or seat belts, so driven VERY carefully) I've driven it so far to and from the shop that put in the roll bar, it feels great, so the anticipation of finally being able to take it to the track is almost unbearable.

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[Cloud9...68]

Well, for anyone who's interested, vliegwielolaf1234 is absolutely correct - I drained most of the fluid out of the reservoir, started up the engine, and sure enough, the flow of fluid is very easily visible. So I turned the wheel to both extremes numerous times with the engine running and the cap off with the front end still elevated, and then put it back on the ground, and there's still no assist. Other than the lack of assist, the steering feels great - very smooth through its full range of travel, and there's no noise whatsoever. I'm almost tempted to leave it as it is, but it's just a tad too heavy for low speed driving, which it will still do for awhile. Also, I'd like to install a smaller diameter steering wheel, which is another reason to get the assist working.



Of course, the fact that there is visible flow doesn't tell me anything about the amount of pressure the pump is putting out, so I guess I have no choice but to take the pump apart and check the direction of the vanes.

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[Lear35A]

I'm interested since I told you I couldn't see any flow in my reservoir. So you're obviously pumping something. If in fact the vanes are not properly installed in your pump, it could explain things. I hope it's an easy fix.

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[Cloud9...68]

Me, too,as this is the last major thing the car needs before it's road and track-worthy again...

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[Cloud9...68]

Well, I took the pump off and took it apart, and confirmed that about half of the vanes are pointed in the "wrong" direction, with the flatter ends pointing outward. So I corrected this to have all the rounded ends pointed outward, put it back on, partially filled the reservoir, started the engine to confirm I still could see fluid flow inside the reservoir, and turned the wheel to the extreme right and left several times with the car still on jack stands (I could tell there was no change in the steering effort). So I let the car down, and confirmed there's still no assist whatsoever. So Austin, don't waste your time turning your vanes around, unless you're really bored one day.



Any suggestions as to what to try next? Find a way to measure the output pressure from the pump? Anybody know how to do that, and what the pressure should be? Or is it most likely, as I suspect, an issue with the rack? If so, any ideas as to what to look for? The car is driveable without power assist (other than the lack of assist, the steering feels great), so I'm not quite ready to throw in the towel and buy a rebuilt rack from Autozone.

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[Lear35A]

Bummer.

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[Cloud9...68]

Yep. No matter what, it looks like the rack has to come out. Crap. Very tempted to just live with the high effort.

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