[flash]

some of you got to see this at hershey, though it was pretty hard to see under the car



when brey-krause came out with their lower suspension brace, i was immediately impressed with 2 things:



1 - the concept, especially for cabs - the lower suspension perches are weak in both models, and flex there is noticeable - their brace resolved that



2 - the beauty of the unit itself - the thing is a work of art



however, upon closer inspection, a couple of things popped up - the brackets didn't fit well (though they came up wiht a solution to that with pete's help) - however, to install it meant you needed to get an alignment - i had already had a half dozen alignments at that point, and did not relish the idea of another one - besides, this brought the cost up from the nearly $300 they wanted for the unit, to nearly $500 after an alignment - i just had to figure out something else, if only on principle



so, i went to work coming up with a less elegant but every bit as effective solution - i was willing to sacrifice a bit of aesthetics if it meant i could get the performance - after all, it's under the car



this unit does not require an alignment at all, is pre-load adjustable, can be installed in minutes, and is so effective that it shocked me upon the first drive - i was backing out of my driveway, had the right rear wheel in the street, and the front wheels still in the driveway - i stepped out of the car to see if my splitter was going to clear the driveway, and as i was walking back to the car, i looked at the left rear wheel and saw daylight under there! - the chassis was now so stiff that the wheel was in the air - i knew that the big hoop chassis brace had removed 60% of the chassis flex, but this had removed all but the last bits of the rest of it - i was stunned - then i went for a drive - absolutely amazing - all of the wiggles and twitches were gone - the car was incredibly solid



in hershey, pete took it for a short drive - his comment was "it feels like a well-sorted coupe" - that said a lot to me



i still have to work out the pricing - some of the parts are to be automated to reduce cost, but it will be much less than the brey-krause, and will not require an alignment (as long as you carefully follow the instructions) - it's a kit with a lot of parts, but it's pretty simple



i am guaging interest for the first production run, so if you want one, please email me via the button here (no PMs please - the box fills too fast)



the unit will be available exclusively through RS Barn



here is a shot of it installed:



   

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[Renalicious]

So just to clarify, this works for both Cabs and Coupes, correct? If so I'm sending e-mail #2 <img src="/forum/images/smilies/968/wink.gif" class="smilie" alt="" />

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[flash]

yes, it does - cabs will see bigger improvements though because they have more flex to begin with



if you have a 92, and you are using the metal undertray, the tray will require a modification

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[PorscheDude]

Put me down for 1 of these as well.



Patrick

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[flash]

i'm gratified and flattered to see the interest in my email - i'm happy to have finally worked all this stuff out



i should have all numbers and such worked out in a matter of days - delivery will be quick - vendor selection will such that insures that

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[vnarma]

Count me in for one. Every bit of stiffness helps.

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[S_Cal968]

Just curious, do the bolts for the caster blocks have to be up-graded since you're increasing the shear load..?



I'll keep an eye out for the $$

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[Cloud9...68]

Looks great, Flash. Put me down as someone else who's interested.



I have a follow-up question, though. Every year, we read how cars are getting stiffer and stiffer, sometimes by unbelievable-sounding numbers (...723% stiffer than the 2006 model!...). However, we just picked up a 2007 BMW 328i, and the handling of that car, at least from my seat-of-the-pants impression, makes the 968 feel like a bathtub on roller skates. And my 968 has had some prretty nice suspension mods, including a strut tower brace.



I'm no expert on the subject, but my guess is the superior chassis stiffness is largely responsible for the incredible handling characteristics of new cars like the Bimmer, because it must allow the suspension designers to focus on optimizing things like suspension geometry, without having to worry about having to compensate for chassis flex. This being said, does anybody know if a stock 968 (and I'm really only talking about the coupe here) is considered a fairly "flexy" car, chassis-wise? I ask because it is such an old design, and chassis stiffening has only seemed to have come into vogue over the last 10 years or so. I'm asking of course because I'm wondering how much benefit I might expect in a coupe from Flash's lower suspension brace. He states not to expect a huge difference in a coupe, but after comparing my car's handling to the BMW, I'm starting to wonder if it couldn't potentially have a fairly sizeable impact, particularly on the track in a DE.



Sorry, this post is getting longer than I had intended, but as I type this, I'm now wondering if there are any modifications that should be made to the suspension to take full advantage of the added stiffness brought about by Flash's brace...

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[flash]

well, i didn't say not to expect a huge difference, only that a cab would see a BIGGER change due to the larger amount of flex it has - frankly i have not installed this into a hardtop yet - being a unibody car, flex is transferred to all points of the car - each time you add a brace, you reduce the amount being transferred - the lower points are reinforced sheetmetal, but still see flex



i'm sure i'll have one installed on a hardtop here soon and can then speak to how much of a change there is



as for mods to make to the suspension, this brace has allowed me to take advantage of the mods i've made - it really drives like a very different car - feels very updated



one thing to think about - every time you stiffen something up, the loads go somewhere else - since this is locking down the castor block points, the castor blocks themselves will likely show any defect very quickly - that would probably be my first "mod"



pop on out and take her for a spin

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[Anchorman]

I DON'T BELIEVE IT!!! What am I supposed to do with the Brey-Krause that was just installed THIS WEEK?

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[flash]

lol - sorry



the brey krause unit is a great unit - a bit more complicated than i chose to be, but very functional nonetheless - danged pretty too



however, i was informed today that it won't work with the rs barn header if you had plans to upgrade to that, i would look to sell the BK



next time i design anything, i will call you first to see if it is on your schedule - how's that?

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[josephsc]

The BK unit fits the 944's (as should this unit). I'd put a for sale sign on someplace like Rennlist to see anyone bites -- if it's been on for only one week, you can sell it as 'barely used'.

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[S_Cal968]

Bob: So no thoughts on the bolts...?

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[flash]

sorry - missed that - been getting a Lot of emails for this stuff



yes, the bolts are upgraded - i include new grade 10 bolts in the kit

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[Miles'PHTurbo968]

Count me in too for 1

Thanks

Miles

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[RS Barn]

I have been a proponent of the BK brace since day one but!!! There was a problem with the brackets not fitting the castor blocks (any of them) until I got BK to change the design. They were also mostly a pain to install. Worst problem is they don't work with my Header and track guys who added Header and took off BK brace complained about lost chassis stiffness.

I have been looking for a high quality alternative and Bob has come up with a very nice piece. It took a year of discussion and Bob searching for the right design and materials to make this happen.

Again I am proud to offer through RS Barn

Pete

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[Eric_K]

Looks nice and the picture is proof that it clears Pete's header. Do you have any more pictures of how the mounting brackets are attached?



My only concern is the use of the spherical rod ends. If I'm trying to make the car as rigid as possible, having a joint in there doesn't help. There is a well respected local porsche race engineer that thinks strut braces and alike with joints are less than optimal. It still allows flexing like a parrallelogram to occur. I don't know if that is a legit concern but it sounded logical to me. That said, I still use the KLA strut brace.

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[biotechee]

I would agree that the spherical ends will allow some of the parallelogram movement of which you speak. However, to get rid of that and provide a "mass" produced piece would be difficult for a car such as ours. That said, I am sure one could construct a more rigid piece specific to one's car if so desired. At that point, one can triangulate or incorporate cross bracing, etc.



A couple of years ago, I owned a '98 BMW 318i. Had it for over 7 years. Nice light car, great suspension, great brakes, excellent gas mileage (little 4-banger!). One of the popular mods was to add the E36 M3 chassis brace. It was about $125 bucks complete and was a big "X" type of brace that connected the underside of the chassis points. It was completely rigid (no sphericals, no adjustment). Installed very easily and it made a *dramatic* difference to say the least.



I think the braces that Flash has developed and Pete will sell are excellent components that will satisfy a large number of customers. I also think that the race crowd could incorporate even more stiffining (sp?) via custom applications- perhaps via cross bracing to the frame rails to some gussets and whatnot...



Anyway, just yappin' away 'cause I bored at work!



Can't wait to get my braces!!!



P.S. Eric K- your car looks freakin' awesome!

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[flash]

i thought about it a lot in working this out



in a car with a frame, i would agree - however, in a unibody car, the idea of putting in a brace without any give anywhere just begs to snap it - been there broke that - a lot of reinforcing in the front frame area would need to be done to keep that from happening - the nature of the design of unibody is to transfer load across the car - this requires some flex - it is evenly spread though, so it isn't much in any one spot - that is why there are so many fasteners though on the bodywork - they are actually structural members of a sort - something often missed when prepping a race car is that if you replace steel fenders with fiberglass ones on a unibody car, you need to add reinforcement to compensate



as an example, take a look at the frame shots of the red rs to see what i am talking about - they ran tubes right up through the towers to accomplish the necessary frame reinforcement - in a race car you can do that - building a space tube frame is key to making it work right - however, in a street car, this is nearly impossible



the strut tower brace has the same issue - with no swivel point, you will snap the brace at its mounting points



yes, this is not the perfect solution, but remember, this is a touring car, and not a sports car - we all have to consider that when modifying it



i was really only trying to control the distance between the castor blocks, because that is a weak spot in the car's design - this brace does that very well - it decreases bump steer and castor change, as well as tightening up the "frame" overall - and all of that without requiring an alignment



progress update - i just worked out costs and such, and will be announcing the pricing tomorrow - delivery is 2 weeks - orders to be taken through rs barn only

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[Tom in Austin]

Great work! Can't wait to get these onto my car

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